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Wharfedale EVO 4.4 vs KEF R3

JktHifi

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A happy owner of R3 here, enjoying every second with them.
If I could buy them with 1150euro back then,,, it would even take me shorter time to decide lol
Stay away from those kind of expensive speakers. It will make you broke.
 

fineMen

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A happy owner of R3 here, enjoying every second with them.
If I could buy them with 1150euro back then,,, it would even take me shorter time to decide lol
Got that pair of KEF R3, new and all, even cheaper ;-) My second ready-made speaker in all my lifetime. First was Celestion 3. Seems I'm devoted to that number, and prefer the British ;-)

Applied the front covers. Nice Bauhaus design on the spot. Fits my surplus Braun A1 perfectly in the Vitsoe 606 bookshelf. Dip at 7kHz (on axis only) doesn't hurt due to it being very sharp.
Tried to e/q the bass for listening distance of 2m in an open plan living room with free standing couch, not using a sub. Distortion rises, but not at all beyond usable. 30Hz full level @84dB < 10%. Again, good enough.

For me the case is closed. In my book the R3 is KEF's real icon, not the LS50. The latter I tried earlier only to send it back after half a day of evaluation. The hidden refinement in the apparently 'pedestrian' R3 would be hard to challenge.
 

MAB

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I've thrown away the terminal speaker connector for HF and LF. I cannot go back.
I hope your realize you can connect a simple jumper made of wire to connect HF+ to LF+, and another for HF- to LF-! For instance:
index.php

You don't even need to remove the bi-wire to do the test HarmonicTHD suggested! The simple jumper will bypass the bi-wire arrangement. You can have someone plug the jumpers in while your aren't looking (no peeking) and see if you can hear the difference - key thing is you need to not know the wire config! You will not be able to hear the difference. It's not because of your ears, or your speakers. Not because of any of our ears or speakers. It's just that the physics of the wire and electrical connection doesn't produce any benefit. The effect is your brain (again, nothing wrong with your brain), it's just that your brain is a prediction engine and listens much differently than you are imagining. If you can tell consistently without peeking, you have discovered a difference.
 
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JktHifi

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I hope your realize you can connect a simple jumper made of wire to connect HF+ to LF+, and another for HF- to LF-! For instance:
index.php

You don't even need to remove the bi-wire to do the test HarmonicTHD suggested! The simple jumper will bypass the bi-wire arrangement. You can have someone plug the jumpers in while your aren't looking (no peeking) and see if you can hear the difference - key thing is you need to not know the wire config! You will not be able to hear the difference. It's not because of your ears, or your speakers. Not because of any of our ears or speakers. It's just that the physics of the wire and electrical connection doesn't produce any benefit. The effect is your brain (again, nothing wrong with your brain), it's just that your brain is a prediction engine and listens much differently than you are imagining. If you can tell consistently without peeking, you have discovered a difference.
Sorry. I don’t have any spare cable to be used as those jumpers.
 

ZolaIII

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Sorry. I don’t have any spare cable to be used as those jumpers.
All speakers with dual binding post's come with such double forks laying down on MAB's picture which do exactly the same thing and you pull them out when you do bi wiring. Or live them in when you don't.
 

JktHifi

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All speakers with dual binding post's come with such double forks laying down on MAB's picture which do exactly the same thing and you pull them out when you do bi wiring. Or live them in when you don't.
I’ve already thrown away those plates since my ears like the sound on bi-wiring. It’s around 20 years ago.
It’s matter of personal taste.
 
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MAB

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Sorry. I don’t have any spare cable to be used as those jumpers.
OK. Then you will never experience the purity of single-wire to speaker!;)
The signal experiences pure transport, with no detours or the potential to get lost between the bi-wires.
Music is more direct and focused. More true to the artist, not showing dual-nature, no time smear due to cancellation waves between the two conductors. Dynamic timbrality and spectral liquidity are enhanced by one set of grain boundaries in one set of cables... two cables have double the grain boundaries, double the impurities, and double the oxygen. Oxygen in the wires takes the air out of the music. This is true.
So I feel bad you will miss the absolute fidelity of single wire. With the money you save on the second cable, maybe you could have upgraded to cryo...:)
 

JktHifi

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OK. Then you will never experience the purity of single-wire to speaker!;)
The signal experiences pure transport, with no detours or the potential to get lost between the bi-wires.
Music is more direct and focused. More true to the artist, not showing dual-nature, no time smear due to cancellation waves between the two conductors. Dynamic timbrality and spectral liquidity are enhanced by one set of grain boundaries in one set of cables... two cables have double the grain boundaries, double the impurities, and double the oxygen. Oxygen in the wires takes the air out of the music. This is true.
So I feel bad you will miss the absolute fidelity of single wire. With the money you save on the second cable, maybe you could have upgraded to cryo...:)
Probably the delayed audio signal from amp to speaker terminal caused by using different speaker cable between HF and LF. I guess, not sure.
 

amicusterrae

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ps: the purpose of this thread is still to find an upgrade for my elacs. So fellow members can continue giving me their feedback on what they think will be the best match for my use and room. Currently the 3 mai contenders are KEF R3, Linton's and....Revel Concerta2 F35.
I own the Evo 4.4s and the larger F36s. I use the Wharfedales in my 11.2.4 theater room and the Revels in my two channel living room. I like them both, though slightly prefer the 4.4s. These are just my subjective impressions: the 4.4s seem to have a more prominent midrange that I find enjoyable. I think the treble response off axis drops off more than with the Revels. That's just a guess, as my theater room is narrow and has a low ceiling, and the F36s sounded too bright for me in that room. They sound fine in my larger, open plan living room--very neutral.I do not find the 4.4s to have a hot treble, as suggested by Amir's measurements here of the smaller bookshelf model. It's the same tweeter, so it stands to reason that the response is similar, but I can only comment on my subjective impression. I trust spinorama measurements, so if I had seen Amir's measurements beforehand, I probably wouldn't have bought the 4.4s. But I am glad I did:) The Wharfedales just have a touch more excitement, which I attribute to more midrange energy. I also like the wood veneer finish more than the gloss black Revels, which really isn't my style. If on axis neutrality is your top goal, the Revels and the R3 are a strong choice. I can subjectively confirm that the F36s, at least, sound good consistent with their measurements. I also like the 4.4s, but should we ever get spinorama measurements, I would not be surprised to see less impressive results. I'll add that I low pass both sets of speakers and use dedicated subs, and I don't apply room correction above the bass range.
 
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fineMen

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ps: the purpose of this thread is still to find an upgrade for my elacs. ...
Of course gaining knowledge on such things (as high pass filter, and room correction) ...
Thanks for the reminder, and: sure. Again I don't want to set up a stereo without using a DSP anymore. The R3 taken as a referrence is quite linear in contrast to many other even in her original price bracket. Still it was a marvelous pleasure to adjust e/g the lower mids around 400Hz for the (usual) enforcement from floor reflections by just turning a knob. The (usual) 100Hz suck-out from the front wall reflection was corrected in a breeze. The warm-ish 'voicing' of the R3 around 1,3kHz was egalized for a fresher representation. I liked it better than pulling down the hifi-ish lower treble hump. Decided within minutes, done in seconds. Rewind possible any time.

Alike with the coupling to the subs. I didn't need to cut off high, HD remains at about 0,5% max (mostly city noise) down to 30Hz ... really, at 84dB @2m distance with a shallow Bessel 77Hz/12dB.

And so on, no, done! That's what a DSP can do for anyone who is willing to invest a bit brain grease. The alternative to buy and try every other day is decidedly stone age ;-) The miniDSP in its most recent version costs 250, and if I were a responsible consultant I would pull the measurmenet microfone in too and be lucky go happy. Postpone the purchase of new speakers until you tried iron age. I see the R3 dropping in price further in the coming weeks, courtesy my crystal ball.

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ZolaIII

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@fineMen
Now take a good look at response linearity in mid - uper bass with port's closed:
This is actually usual behaviour for any speaker when you plug the port but in two way one's it helps also improving mids and lowering cabinets resonance (actually one helps another as there is no detected and physically decoupled in closed enclosure mid range driver).
And it would be outstanding when high passed @ 100 Hz, -12 dB/oct, LR2 crossover with phase of sub's inverted.

Did R3 had a better bass or bas response of the woofer driver itself or go lower than DBR62? No it didn't.
 
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fineMen

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Found them at 1060 and decided to give them a try.
I just received them.
Took the day off, Monday is public holiday and my excitement is sky rocketing
Do you have a measurement microphone?

This is actually usual behaviour for any speaker when you plug the port but in two way one's it helps also improving mids and lowering cabinets resonance ... go lower than DBR62? No it didn't.
I don't get what you're after. The R3 is a true three-way. There are no cabinet resonances with or without. Could you provide some real--self measured, data supporting your musings?
 

fineMen

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Told you to pay attention to ... do I need to explain high pass @ 100 Hz, -12 dB/oct, LR2 crossover with phase of sub's inverted?
What's it? :rolleyes:
Told you my story, especially about my previous "system" (#49). Attention is hereby reported healthy and explanation I don't know who will take advantage of it actually. Better you decide.
 

fineMen

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Found them at 1060 and decided to give them a try.
I just received them.
Took the day off, Monday is public holiday and my excitement is sky rocketing
@kolestonin, may I ask where you live? In case (I find my stack) I could send you in exchange for some fancy local good a working rudimentary Panasonic WM62 (?) measurment microphone, it'll need only an empowering 9V battery block. Feel still gratefull regarding my recommendation I gave you. Will clean-up my DIY stuff for a while ;-) "Personal message" appreciated.
@all, can't stand the realization that many are talking minute fractions of a dB but never did a single measurement alone
 
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