Wharfedale EVO 4.4 vs KEF R3

[ZolaIII]

@JktHifi you can use plate's or forks just not banana plugs. And again better a good old copper one's which you can find in hardware store or auto electric shop for price of peanuts then fancy audiophile one's.

 

[JktHifi]

@JktHifi you can use plate's or forks just not banana plugs. And again better a good old copper one's which you can find in hardware store or auto electric shop for price of peanuts then fancy audiophile one's.

But sometimes the cable insulation from audiophile store is better than common hardware/electric store. I think the price is put on the cable insulation. When the cable goes to floor, like Darko youtube yesterday said because of fog.

 

[ZolaIII]

But sometimes the cable insulation from audiophile store is better than common hardware/electric store. I think the price is put on the cable insulation. When the cable goes to floor, like Darko youtube yesterday said because of fog.

We are talking about speaker cable's where isolation is less of a concern (if you are not doing in wall installation at least). Main point is a good tight contact with as little additional impedance (resistance) added and that's where banana plugs fail.

 

[MAB]

But sometimes the cable insulation from audiophile store is better than common hardware/electric store. I think the price is put on the cable insulation. When the cable goes to floor, like Darko youtube yesterday said because of fog.

Dude, the Darko fog video - it was an April Fool's joke.

The cable lifters, and they false-physics they represent are a joke.
BTW, bi-wire is also a joke.
Now I'm laughing.

 

[JktHifi]

Dude, the Darko fog video - it was an April Fool's joke.
View attachment 277034
The cable lifters, and they false-physics they represent are a joke.
BTW, bi-wire is also a joke.
Now I'm laughing.

Sorry for the April Fool but I’m talking cable insulation.

I’m experiencing different without bi-wire. Probably you have bad ears or not-correct bi-wiring.
Please don’t defend on something that you haven’t experienced yet. It will be bad for the society.

Many people are buying this cable on Amazon and you tell me those people are idiot?

 

[MAB]

Sorry for the April Fool but I’m talking cable insulation.

Yeah, I know what you are talking about, but you have no idea.

I’m experiencing different without bi-wire. Probably you have bad ears or not-correct bi-wiring.

This isn't about good or bad ears. A bat can't hear the supposed benefit of bi-wire. And, your ears aren't as good as you think.
You should seriously read up about your ears, your perception, sighted listening. While you are at it, please read up on basic electronics, and why audiophile bi-wire is a fantasy designed to take your money for no audible benefit.

 

[JktHifi]

Yeah, I know what you are talking about, but you have no idea.

This isn't about good or bad ears. A bat can't hear the supposed benefit of bi-wire. And, your ears aren't as good as you think.
You should seriously read up about your ears, your perception, sighted listening. While you are at it, please read up on basic electronics, and why audiophile bi-wire is a fantasy designed to take your money for no audible benefit.

I don’t have time to read it. Please read it. The most important is: Have you had the experience of bi-wiring?

 

[MAB]

Many people are buying this cable on Amazon and you tell me those people are idiot?
View attachment 277049

Yes, that is what I am telling you if they bought these thinking that any aspect of these improves sound. At least the Amazon cables are typically cheap so they probably only qualify as fools, the real idiots spent tens of thousands on their cables...

 

[JktHifi]

Yes, that is what I am telling you if they bought these thinking that any aspect of these improves sound. At least the Amazon cables are typically cheap so they probably only qualify as fools, the real idiots spent tens of thousands on their cables...

It’s only $50 for 2. Cheaper than your speaker cable. And now you’re the one who is fool.

 

[MAB]

It’s only $50 for 2. Cheaper than your speaker cable. And now you’re the one who is fool.

Thanks for trading insults with me!
I saw the Renter's Fog video and at first thought it was a serious review about the benefits of cable lifters.
You watched the same and just thought it was serious, seems this is still spinning in your head.
Three days after April Fools and you still killin' it... You made my day.

 

[prerich]

What you miss is high pass and not letting the speakers to do peek bass 70 ~80 Hz in most materials in the first place. And you need to EQ bass all the way to 500 Hz.
Baying towers with two 6.5~7" woffer's or 10" one (as a equivalent) won't change much nor will help regarding room influences. Even with high pass @ 80 Hz my main bookshelf speakers (which are a bit less capable then Elac's especially regarding how loud they can go full band) reach white noise 83 dB (-20 dB) mono point (in mid sized room) and membranes don't exhibit much excursion (nor cabinets refractions). They are paird with two again less capable 10" sub's which again whose challenge to minimise vibration transfer as it is. I am not a basshead, I use equal loudness normalisation.
Until you integrate; high pass, EQ the bass, do vibration decoupling best you can and do basic room treatment I doubt you will get where you want (clean pulpy full bass with a good early-to-late arriving sound energy) no matter how much money you pour towards main speakers (considering that those you already got are very good with wide dispersion and can play very loud as it's mid to far field you are listening in and large room). But it's your money.

If his source is computer based - he could use filters in Roon or Jriver to implement the High pass @ 100hz. I'm wondering what does he use for a source.

 

[ZolaIII]

Guys all you need is love!
Seriously a good cheap speaker cable where I live (and most Europe) is Tasker C102 AWG 13. It's about 1.5 € per meter.

 

[ZolaIII]

@prerich yes but I didn't wanted to complicate. Good multichannel sound cards are becoming endemic and again PC could cause problems (will it I can't predict) and again no unbalanced/balanced combo that I know about at least (and they don't exactly give full output V). I don't know about audio interfaces. There are true multichannel output one's and not much of such and they are mixed balanced/unbalanced (which is not rare). So if you know some that will work (multichannel DAC and output trough both balanced/unbalanced in a same time on different chenels with fairly good ASIO driver) and perform good please advise.

 

[kolestonin]

If his source is computer based - he could use filters in Roon or Jriver to implement the High pass @ 100hz. I'm wondering what does he use for a source.

Windows 10 pc-Topping E30-dac-Topping pre90 pre-amp-Hyper NC252MP power amplifier.

I used to listen flacs via Foobar but once I discovered Qobuz I made a subscription and never looked back.

Qobuz was the 3d biggest sound upgrade, after my 2 subs, I had in my system.

So it's windows 10+Qobuz and I would be interested to see what are my options for applying a high pass filter as from what @ZolaIII wrote I understand that this can make a significant difference.

ps: the purpose of this thread is still to find an upgrade for my elacs. So fellow members can continue giving me their feedback on what they think will be the best match for my use and room. Currently the 3 mai contenders are KEF R3, Linton's and....Revel Concerta2 F35. I will also give an eye on these Heco speakers brought in the thread by @Battlebeast as they caught my attention. You might say that I have no real plan by checking options of different speakers categories but this is not true. I have a plan, and I enjoy the process of investigating different options as I feel no need, other than my upgrade itch, for rush. But always in the context of my initial post. And willing to spend around 1000-1500euros, but ready to go up to 2000+ if 'necessary'.
Of course gaining knowledge on such things(as high pass filter, and room correction) which could boost my experience is more than welcome. Knowledge that can be applied to any future pair of speakers I will own after all.

 

[prerich]

Windows 10 pc-Topping E30-dac-Topping pre90 pre-amp-Hyper NC252MP power amplifier.

I used to listen flacs via Foobar but once I discovered Qobuz I made a subscription and never looked back.

Qobuz was the 3d biggest sound upgrade, after my 2 subs, I had in my system.

So it's windows 10+Qobuz and I would be interested to see what are my options for applying a high pass filter as from what @ZolaIII wrote I understand that this can make a significant difference.

ps: the purpose of this thread is still to find an upgrade for my elacs. So fellow members can continue giving me their feedback on what they think will be the best match for my use and room. Currently the 3 mai contenders are KEF R3, Linton's and....Revel Concerta2 F35. I will also give an eye on these Heco speakers brought in the thread by @Battlebeast as they caught my attention. You might say that I have no real plan by checking options of different speakers categories but this is not true. I have a plan, and I enjoy the process of investigating different options as I feel no need, other than my upgrade itch, for rush. But always in the context of my initial post. And willing to spend around 1000-1500euros, but ready to go up to 2000+ if 'necessary'.
Of course gaining knowledge on such things(as high pass filter, and room correction) which could boost my experience is more than welcome. Knowledge that can be applied to any future pair of speakers I will own after all.

Well in that case I would just go for either the KEF R3 or the Revels and call it a day

 

[Talisman]

@JktHifi you can use plate's or forks just not banana plugs. And again better a good old copper one's which you can find in hardware store or auto electric shop for price of peanuts then fancy audiophile one's.

Again, barring poor quality products, I would really like to blindly compare a banana connection to a bare wire one. Many ideas are passed down from audiophile to audiophile over the generations as established truth, but can you hear a difference? I HIGHLY doubt it

 

[sejarzo]

We are talking about speaker cable's where isolation is less of a concern (if you are not doing in wall installation at least). Main point is a good tight contact with as little additional impedance (resistance) added and that's where banana plugs fail.

I think many banana plugs fail in that regard, but BFAs work well in many instances where the output terminals on the amp are too closely spaced.

Some speaker terminals--even those that appear to be sturdy and feel as if they initially tighten up well--loosen up over time when using bare wire or spades.

 

[ZolaIII]

Again, barring poor quality products, I would really like to blindly compare a banana connection to a bare wire one. Many ideas are passed down from audiophile to audiophile over the generations as established truth, but can you hear a difference? I HIGHLY doubt it

Well it won't make much of the difference, especially on short ones. Main difference is cost especially for finished products. Resistance will definitely be higher when you insert anything in between even if the plugs are berilium or such and you use silver - tin for soldering. Banana plugs are easier to plug/unplug but argument about oxidation on open conductor bare wire doesn't hold if you use OFC cable in the first place. In short between 100€ nice 3 m speaker cable with banana plugs and 9€ bare wire with scrow terminals I choose bare wire.

 

[kolestonin]

Well in that case I would just go for either the KEF R3 or the Revels and call it a day

That's how I think it

But I would like to understand something.

Can we say that my current setup does not permit any further improvements in sub integration without the addition(or replacement) of a piece of hardware in my chain?

Can we say that my current setup does not permit any room calibration without the adition(or replacement) of a piece of hardware in my chain?

How true/valid are the above statements?

 

[ZolaIII]

That's how I think it

But I would like to understand something.

Can we say that my current setup does not permit any further improvements in sub integration without the addition(or replacement) of a piece of hardware in my chain?

Can we say that my current setup does not permit any room calibration without the adition(or replacement) of a piece of hardware in my chain?

How true/valid are the above statements?

How (from what) do you connect subwoofer's?
Don't really know how good would this work?

A15HP User Guide - Shure

Online user guide for Shure A15HP high pass filter.

pubs.shure.com

Not exactly cheap as you would need two and made with something else in mind (microphones). It's 100 Hz 12 dB slope (with 800 Ohms or more impedance) so you would need to plug the port's on DBR62's and use sub's next to speakers. I hope someone more knowledgeable would jump in and explain. It's the only one balanced I could find (plenty of unbalanced one's and relatively cheap).

Edit: by the way biggest if not only problem is high pass implementation, you can do all DSP-ing on PC (including room corrections).