Wharfedale EVO 4.4 vs KEF R3

[ZolaIII]

What's it?
Told you my story, especially about my previous "system" (#49). Attention is hereby reported healthy and explanation I don't know who will take advantage of it actually. Better you decide.

Well it is what it is as shown in measurements, + it improves impuls response and time domain with it.
I never told how R3 aren't a very good speakers (even I subjectively don't like them), told you how to make them even better. Would you take advantage to do so (as you do have all it require to do so) is absolutely up to you. 180° phase invertion is so that it doesn't add but shave a bit overlapping frequency over the crossing point.
Enjoy them as ever you like and have a nice time.

 

[kolestonin]

@kolestonin, may I ask where you live? In case (I find my stack) I could send you in exchange for some fancy local good a working rudimentary Panasonic WM62 (?) measurment microphone, it'll need only an empowering 9V battery block. Feel still gratefull regarding my recommendation I gave you. Will clean-up my DIY stuff for a while ;-) "Personal message" appreciated.
@all, can't stand the realization that many are talking minute fractions of a dB but never did a single measurement alone

This is very kind of you.
I really appreciate your community spirit and want thank you for your gesture.

Note though that the biggest 'blocking point' is not the price of a umik 1 for example, but my will to drop myself into this.
I am 100% sure that this moment will come sooner or later though.

Of course having a microphone could give me this little boost to make me say: just download rew and give it a go, there is nothing to loose
I sent you a pm with the country I live
Thanks again

Found them at 1060 and decided to give them a try.
I just received them.
Took the day off, Monday is public holiday and my excitement is sky rocketing

I forgot to add that my wife and kids are away on easter holidays and I sacrificed myself staying back so to take care of the dog

 

[fineMen]

I forgot to add that my wife and kids are away on easter holidays and I sacrificed myself staying back so to take care of the dog

Yep, onyl to be clear about this, language barrier. It was my pleasure to recommend to you a speaker that I myself needed. Have fun, despite you being stuck at home with the doggy.

 

[Snix]

Found them at 1060 and decided to give them a try.
I just received them.
Took the day off, Monday is public holiday and my excitement is sky rocketing

Gratz on your purchase!
It's always a great day when you get a great audio gear(s)!

 

[fineMen]

... a great day when you get a great audio gear(s)!

Not necessarily so. I wanted to show you some results as to motivate my recommendation for the R3s, that led to buying them myself

(with subs, levels calibrated @85dB stereo @2m distance in room, speakers at wall, mic/ standing freely)

• FR, stereo, the dip at about 3kHz is due to a slight asymmetry in the mic/ position, hence differing pathways, phase shift
• HD distortion levels let me pull my amp into doubt; all you see below is essential ambient noise, traffic, my wallclock, my lute ...
• IM distortion, now single speaker, is due to interaction between the midrange cone as a waveguide and the tweeter dome; 18kHz was found to be worst case, with 10kHz well below 0.1%
• Doppler FM I couldn't provoke but is, per simple calculation, expected to slowly chime in @95dB+

Along with my recommendation for the R3s I strongly suggest to learn about equalization, measuring a speaker in-room. All extra expenses are lost otherwise--don't expect even 'good' results without that invest in *real* knowledge, sorry.
Sidenote.: Erin measured interaction tweeter vs. mid by moving the mid's cone with some current from a battery; see, there is another possibility ;-)

 

[CrustyToad]

None of these matters
A simple cable will do. Banana is simply a matter of convenience

Cut all these banana plugs and throw them away. Direct contact between copper and terminal is better.
View attachment 276984

 

[fineMen]

Banana is simply a matter of convenience

Forgot to present the frequency response in near field @50cm 00° on axis, 45° off axis after e/q, grilles attached. As always, watch the scale or leave it.

Only one problem remains: I can't get what Lou Reed sings on "Walk On The Wild Side" at minute 1:15+--is it "hair", or what? Real truth is missing, it seems. Maybe you native speakers, for my convenience, can straighten out the riddle.

 

[ZolaIII]

@fineMen
But she never lost her head
Even when she was giving head...

 

[fineMen]

@fineMen
But she never lost her head
Even when she was giving head...

Why doesn't the speaker tell? Maybe I need my cabling anewed, bananas!

Seriously, a very final resume. I tried to e/q a 2dB dip @2,3kHz. That killed it; its a diffraction effect which wanders around in frequency with angle. Boy, the e/q shrilled around in-room, effing! Finally I left the mids/treble all alone to full avail. Bass ((no sub, no e/q) gets emphasized by room gain. I tried the speakers in a sideroom of my flat, sized like 16sqm. With a virtual couch position not too far from a backwall KEF's claim of 30Hz extension is confirmed, can become too much even. In my bigger room of about 70sqm, 5m to 7m hight (old nursery) the bass is still deep but lacks penetration. E/q for stand-alone operation is possible without sacrificing too much of midrange quality. A sub is optimal, virtually no limits in sound pressure level then.

The sound feels overall creamy but articulate. The clarity is to die for. Those infamous female voices from the lofty 'girl with band' department come close to you, really, but don't bother the least. Drum kit is positioned broadly in the back, as it should be because with live it is just so. RnR misses the dirty sometimes, funk with subdued e-bass lines, but again, that renders them even more effectively creepy, as it should be. Once cought it is a nasty joy to follow the harmonic development. Etc pp very good speakers. For the current pricing it's a steal me thinks, and other than with 'high- end' the reward is on your side ;-)

Make sure that the grilles are attached! Despite KEF saying the sound is voiced with grilles off, my measurements show that the mid to treble section is just right with them on. If one ignores some sharp dips, first @7k. Those don't bother me personally. It was shown (scientifically by a professor) that such irregularities are not detectable to the common ear/brain apparatus, especially in the treble. Foremost, the grilles protect effectively. And they look darn good! I use the speaker laying on the side, and so the overall picture resembles retro Bauhaus, Ulm School for Design style without the least of kitsch. Who is not to adore it?

Regarding the original question, see also:

("2:00 ff)

The 'vertical' is inherently no problem with the R3's coax--as said, I use it flipped over to the side for the looks

 

[kolestonin]

Passing my 8th and last day with the KEF's.
I liked them so much I decided to return them and....buy a pair of KEF R3 Meta.

But let me give you insight.

The box opening was a disappointment and I knew from 1st minute I will return them to the dealer.

On both speakers the woofer trim ring, or the woofer itself, is misaligned. Literally the same issue our fellow forum member describes here
On both speakers the shadow flare on the outer edge of the Uni Q array is not evenly inserted inside in the baffle, sitting above it in some parts. I tried to push it in the baffle but its impossible to insert it any further. Not so concerning I need to say, as it's no so evident or to a worrying extend.

There was also a little residue of a grassy substance on one woofer which was easily removed with a towel.

It seems this pair completely skipped the quality control. And with a some basic web search you will realize that It's not the first case of KEF failing in this regard. And there is no way I could tolerate these issues for speakers of this price range.

But I of course tested them.
No measurements so feel free to skip what will follow.

The speakers impressed me with their sound quality.

If I would need to describe this with one word I would say: holographic

They do everything better in respect of my Elac's debut dr62.
Not jaw droppingly better, so to give some praise to my modest Elac's, but you can clearly and undoubtedly tell that the KEF's belong to a different league.
Clarity, detail, sound stage, stereo imaging.
Stereo imaging is astonishing.
Lows, mids, highs, room filing, everything is better.
Bass is more thin I would dare to say in respect to the elac's which have a really strong bass for their calibre.
Still more enjoyable and detailed.
Punchy, crisp, rich, deep sound coming in layers.

In plus, speakers made a perfect aesthetic much with my space, stands, sound equipment.

These KEF's R3 simply tick all my boxes.
And I think these can be endgame speakers for my current living space.

Before trying them I was finding the price difference with the META's is not justified.
But how can I know now? There are no concrete reviews, measurements, comparisons etc
In plus, my confidence to the brand is severely hurt due to the two misaligned woofers(something you don't expect even from the cheapest speakers in the world). This is something unacceptable in my opinion.

But no matter the above, I already decided and ordered(found an excellent price btw) a pair of R3 Meta's.

And from that decision you can imagine how much I loved the sound of the speakers.

ps: worked a lot with positioning and best result is achieved with a toe in of 10-15 degrees and a distance of 45cm(or more) from back wall.
Distance from side wall is around 75-80cm.
Speakers are 2,15m away from each other and 2,15m from mlp.

 

[MAB]

Passing my 8th and last day with the KEF's.
I liked them so much I decided to return them and....buy a pair of KEF R3 Meta.

But let me give you insight.

The box opening was a disappointment and I knew from 1st minute I will return them to the dealer.

On both speakers the woofer trim ring, or the woofer itself, is misaligned. Literally the same issue our fellow forum member describes here
On both speakers the shadow flare on the outer edge of the Uni Q array is not evenly inserted inside in the baffle, sitting above it in some parts. I tried to push it in the baffle but its impossible to insert it any further. Not so concerning I need to say, as it's no so evident or to a worrying extend.

I don't like those trim rings, KEF is not the only company doing this. I stopped by the local shop yesterday, two of the trim rings are misaligned on their display models, one was an R3 the other was a different brand so it's not just KEF... But KEF certainly make great sounding speakers, so happy hunting!

 

[fineMen]

I don't like those trim rings, KEF is not the only company doing this. I stopped by the local shop yesterday, two of the trim rings are misaligned on their display models, one was an R3 the other was a different brand so it's not just KEF... But KEF certainly make great sounding speakers, so happy hunting!

The trim ring again! With mine it came out on the other side when pressing it in at any arbitrary edge. A pain in the a**. But those 12dB or what that Erin experienced, no way. It was a +/- 1dB maxmax, and such is reported by somebody else with the MAT variant on this board--same prob. I wish Erin could reassess the topic. As I use mine with the grilles attached, I don't bother anyway. With grilles the treble is severely ragged, which, for me, is a very much bigger concern. I personally can accept it, after a bit of equalization, but what were they thinking? Again, same with the MAT.

 

[thewas]

But those 12dB or what that Erin experienced, no way.

Erin measured around maximum 4 dB and those just at narrow region, I guess he just made a mistake in his text.

 

[kolestonin]

As I already mentioned I had the old version of R3 for 10 days.
Loved them, returned them, and ordered a pair of R3 Meta.

Having passed 4 full days with the Meta's I think I can say they are overall better than old version.
I have no measurements, there was also a gap 15 days after returning the non meta, and in all cases my conclusions are very subjective and cannot be trusted.

If I would need to describe the differences I would spot them on two below points:

KEF R3 Meta are giving me the impression that they are more balanced speakers.
The blending/transition from low to mid's and high's is smoother in a way. As a person coming from very neutral speakers I can remember founding the original R3 a bit bright. Not to an annoying extend as I never felt the minimum ear fatigue, but I would still describe them as relatively bright speakers. Something I would never think or say for the Meta's.

Another thing I notice is that the Meta's are less difficult to room placement. Again with no big difference and needing to note that their sweet spot(40cm far from back wall + 10-15° of toe in) in my space is exactly the same as the previous R3. But I tried almost everything with both speakers. Sticked to back wall, toed in, toed out, firing straight in the room. And I can say that the Meta's always sounded great no matter their placement. Not good, but great. Which was not the case with previous version if I can recall correctly. Especially the toed out scenario left me speechless. But also placing the Meta's close to back wall. Bass has obviously more authority with both speakers, but I think the penalty in imaging and in total sound quality is less with the Meta's.

Speakers put a smile or a stunned expression in my face.
Sometimes I feel like the music comes in a bubble with me in the center or even blasting me like a spinning tornado taking me away and traveling me with the notes.
I can feel the singers being present in my living room with some recordings.
I caught myself 4-5 times spontaneously dancing alone out of no where when I was just walking in the room or doing something else.

I had to push both shadow flares with moderate pressure so to make them smoothly inserted and seated slightly inside the baffle. But this an action that cannot be reversed, so I started wondering if a did the good thing* by altering the way the speakers came from the factory. Especially given the flare was pronounced on both speakers so the 'transportation slipping effect' started to became a not so convincing explanation(as it affected both speakers in the exact same way) to me.
*I am aware of Erin's measurements and a lot of web references on the old version

It would be maybe good if one of the KEF engineers we are privileged to have in this forum clarifies once and for all whether the shadow flare is intended to seat 0,5mm inside the baffle or to be slightly pronounced. Not for my personal case(as I said it's irreversible) of course, but for all future owners of the speakers. Is pressing the flare back a suggested thing to do?
@jackocleebrown or @davidbosch may want to give us some insight

ps: I finally ordered a UMIK-1 and I am reluctantly ready to throw my self in the REW rabbit hole. Seems like a mission impossible to me but I am so curious to see all the differences I hear by changing speakers placement, subwoofer crossover, room furniture/curtains lay out, translated in scientific data. And of course bring my overall experience to a different level. Wish me good luck and stay tuned(maybe in a separate thread) cause I will definitely need help

 

[davidbosch]

As I already mentioned I had the old version of R3 for 10 days.
Loved them, returned them, and ordered a pair of R3 Meta.

Having passed 4 full days with the Meta's I think I can say they are overall better than old version.
I have no measurements, there was also a gap 15 days after returning the non meta, and in all cases my conclusions are very subjective and cannot be trusted.

If I would need to describe the differences I would spot them on two below points:

KEF R3 Meta are giving me the impression that they are more balanced speakers.
The blending/transition from low to mid's and high's is smoother in a way. As a person coming from very neutral speakers I can remember founding the original R3 a bit bright. Not to an annoying extend as I never felt the minimum ear fatigue, but I would still describe them as relatively bright speakers. Something I would never think or say for the Meta's.

Another thing I notice is that the Meta's are less difficult to room placement. Again with no big difference and needing to note that their sweet spot(40cm far from back wall + 10-15° of toe in) in my space is exactly the same as the previous R3. But I tried almost everything with both speakers. Sticked to back wall, toed in, toed out, firing straight in the room. And I can say that the Meta's always sounded great no matter their placement. Not good, but great. Which was not the case with previous version if I can recall correctly. Especially the toed out scenario left me speechless. But also placing the Meta's close to back wall. Bass has obviously more authority with both speakers, but I think the penalty in imaging and in total sound quality is less with the Meta's.

Speakers put a smile or a stunned expression in my face.
Sometimes I feel like the music comes in a bubble with me in the center or even blasting me like a spinning tornado taking me away and traveling me with the notes.
I can feel the singers being present in my living room with some recordings.
I caught myself 4-5 times spontaneously dancing alone out of no where when I was just walking in the room or doing something else.

I had to push both shadow flares with moderate pressure so to make them smoothly inserted and seated slightly inside the baffle. But this an action that cannot be reversed, so I started wondering if a did the good thing* by altering the way the speakers came from the factory. Especially given the flare was pronounced on both speakers so the 'transportation slipping effect' started to became a not so convincing explanation(as it affected both speakers in the exact same way) to me.
*I am aware of Erin's measurements and a lot of web references on the old version

It would be maybe good if one of the KEF engineers we are privileged to have in this forum clarifies once and for all whether the shadow flare is intended to seat 0,5mm inside the baffle or to be slightly pronounced. Not for my personal case(as I said it's irreversible) of course, but for all future owners of the speakers. Is pressing the flare back a suggested thing to do?
@jackocleebrown or @davidbosch may want to give us some insight

ps: I finally ordered a UMIK-1 and I am reluctantly ready to throw my self in the REW rabbit hole. Seems like a mission impossible to me but I am so curious to see all the differences I hear by changing speakers placement, subwoofer crossover, room furniture/curtains lay out, translated in scientific data. And of course bring my overall experience to a different level. Wish me good luck and stay tuned(maybe in a separate thread) cause I will definitely need help

Hi @kolestonin . Sorry to hear you too are struggling with the protruding shadow flare. If the ring is flush or pressed into the baffle, you won't really see any frequency response difference (at least in the audio spectrum). When the ring sits out, there's no change in the response up until the ring is about 2mm out or more. This depends on the speaker, as it depends on how compressed the rear gasket is. But basically it is only when the gasket no longer seals that the cavity behind the ring is excited and it whistles. The Meta speakers are more robust to this effect, even if the ring protrudes a bit.

 

[kolestonin]

Hi @davidbosch

I am not struggling at all
I am enjoying these great speakers you and your Team designed.

I was just curious if pressing the ring in(as I did) is the correct thing to do.

Thank you very much for having clarified that with above post.

 

[maty]

QC Spook regarding the new KEF R Meta

Greetings, fellow members of ASR. I recently laid my eyes on the new KEF R Meta series, purchasing one R6 Meta unit first and ordering two more for LCR duty a few days back, which arrived earlier today. It was a pleasant surprise as the projected arrival time is quite a bit later this week, but...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[kolestonin]

So absolute first measurement of my life is here.
Finished setting up everything 30 minutes ago and simply ran a single pink noise on mlp.

I will continue with reading and experimentation.
Advises/suggestions and off course opinions on how my measurement looks are more than welcome

 

[fineMen]

So absolute first measurement of my life is here.

Congratulations! Seems the volume is a little bit low. The 50Hz peak looks like hum from the power grid. And the lowest registers are probably contaminated with traffic / wind noise. You won't hear it, but the microphone picks it up objectively. With both a higher level could help.

 

[fineMen]

Congratulations! Seems the volume is a little bit low. The 50Hz peak looks like hum from the power grid. And the lowest registers are probably contaminated with traffic / wind noise. You won't hear it, but the microphone picks it up objectively. With both a higher level could help.

As you use REW, please consider to limit the measurement range, or better to say the range of the signal in frequency. Bass reflex speakers are quite sensitive to signals below the tuning frequency. With the KEFs the tunig is around 45Hertz so a limit to 35Hz seems appropriate.