Weiss DAC501 Streamer and DAC Review

[fatoldgit]

Well... have you been following Tavarish's McLaren adventures? It would appear that long-term performance verification of parts in the exotic supercar space can be quite lacking at times.

No I havent but I dont class Weiss as in the super exotic, low volume space

 

[holdingpants01]

However, manufacturers always are the ones to send the equipment in for reviews. This unit was on loan by a member, where ASR and/or the member paid for the shipping costs.

AND they expected Amir to debug the issue.

Weiss got some serious, serious entitlement issues. Who the hell do they think they are.

I give them some benefit of the doubt, to me it kind of looked like they just wanted to make sure it wasn't a problem on the Amirs side, be it setup or measurement error, before publication

 

[voodooless]

I give them some benefit of the doubt, to me it kind of looked like they just wanted to make sure it wasn't a problem on the Amirs side, be it setup or measurement error, before publication

As if it was the first time @amirm tested a DAC

 

[holdingpants01]

As if it was the first time @amirm tested a DAC

We know that, but maybe he's not that well recognized in the audio world. I'm not trying to defend them, just maybe they're not as evil. On the other hand charging 10k for something like this is criminal lol

 

[amirm]

We know that, but maybe he's not that well recognized in the audio world. I'm not trying to defend them, just maybe they're not as evil. On the other hand charging 10k for something like this is criminal lol

Daniel has been a member of ASR for a while so no issue with knowing who I am.

 

[holdingpants01]

Daniel has been a member of ASR for a while so no issue with knowing who I am.

Fair enough, it was just hard for me to believe someone would be so weird about that but well

 

[IAtaman]

Brazil's law is something else. Major manufacturers had to setup dummy "factories" there where they would bring essentially finished AV gear there, put a screw in it to finish it and then ship locally. I would hear a lot of stories like this from execs in the industry.

That kind of workarounds are very common all around the world these days. With protectionism on the rise for a while now, importing "semi" finished goods and assembling them in-country to avoid crazy custom duties is what most international manufacturers do nowadays. And it's not just custom duties - if your product in not "manufactured" locally, you can not participate in government tenders in a lot of countries. It used to be the case for some categories of products, but recently that expanded to include almost everything. Interesting times.

Note to moderation : He started it!

 

[CleanSound]

Interesting that Weiss has been a member at ASR for some time.

If I was a manufacturer and a member of ASR, I would ask Amir and a handful of ASR members to participate in a beta testing program when bringing new products to market and perhaps compensate them with a 50% discount on any products they sell.

If manufacturers like Weiss did that, this could all be avoided.

Manufacturers don't engage customers enough in their product design. If any manufacturers asked me to participate in a beta testing program, I would be so honored and would give me best effort to do the best job that I can.

 

[IAtaman]

Interesting that Weiss has been a member at ASR for some time.

If I was a manufacturer and a member of ASR, I would ask Amir and a handful of ASR members to participate in a beta testing program when bringing new products to market and perhaps compensate them with a 50% discount on any products they sell.

If manufacturers like Weiss did that, this could all be avoided.

Manufacturers don't engage customers enough in their product design. If any manufacturers asked me to participate in a beta testing program, I would be so honored and would give me best effort to do the best job that I can.

A few problems with that idea as I see it:
- The premise of ASR is objective data. Getting ASR people on a listening based beta-testing sounds off brand to me. Besides a newer AP with a USB interface would have avoided the hiccup in the measurements and I don't think listening tests would be able to surface it.
- I am not sure ASR folks are the main target audience for an $8K streamer for which one of its distinguishing features is its high price tag. I'd rather find an influential "audiophile" guy in Hong Kong or in Dubai and ask them to be part of the team.
- Manufacturers who see ASR members/readers as target audience do engage with people here for opinions and ideas. Fosi was running a poll on best design for an upcoming product earlier in the year IIRC for example.

 

[DSJR]

Certain speakers aside, I don't feel that ASR is particularly a forum for 'expensive aspirational brands' unless it's in pure tech/bench performance, rather than price tags, looks or perceived 'sound quality' which is so tightly linked to the visuals in my personal experience. I''m not being cruel here as any 'digital audio aspiration' I have is at the bottom end over-achievers level rather than otherwise acceptable but very highly priced gear such as Chord Electronics for example, which offers a six grand preamp with looks I like a lot compared to the new Schiit one which I have my beadies on for when my geriatric preamp finally fails (physically, with unobtainium original controls).

If this unit can be tweaked with a software tweak, then issue solved really and knowing there's a substantially well off audiophile sector that in the UK buys Naim streamers, the price isn't silly. As for testing, would Stereophile have been able to reproduce what Amir found?

 

[Purité Audio]

ASR is all about measurement and thus sound quality, I don’t mind that the Weiss costs the amount it does what disappoints is its performance.
Keith

 

[AndreaT]

I think the root of his complaint is a desire to bring bugs to the manufacturer’s attention first and holding the review until they are fixed. That’s the way some publications operate, but I actually think that’s not transparent enough for serious, science-based publications. Publishing the review exposing the faults and then doing a follow up on a fixed unit is the best practice, IMO.

A follow-up indeed has been already performed and it showed the root cause of the poor linearity. Science does not proceed as fast as one wishes, but through a painful course of wrong turns, adjustments and incremental improvements in experiments and knowledge. I think Amirm is impeccable in his reviews.

 

[voodooless]

A follow-up indeed has been already performed and it showed the root cause of the poor linearity.

Besides, this isn’t some new product that the manufacturer sent it. The product is around since at least end of 2018. That means this bug went undiscovered for 5 almost years.

 

[CleanSound]

A few problems with that idea as I see it:
- The premise of ASR is objective data. Getting ASR people on a listening based beta-testing sounds off brand to me. Besides a newer AP with a USB interface would have avoided the hiccup in the measurements and I don't think listening tests would be able to surface it.
- I am not sure ASR folks are the main target audience for an $8K streamer for which one of its distinguishing features is its high price tag. I'd rather find an influential "audiophile" guy in Hong Kong or in Dubai and ask them to be part of the team.
- Manufacturers who see ASR members/readers as target audience do engage with people here for opinions and ideas. Fosi was running a poll on best design for an upcoming product earlier in the year IIRC for example.

The beta testing I have in mind, is not necessarily a listening test. It's more of a overall product test, functionality, QA/QC and those members who has an industrial precision measurement can also measure it. Many here have a high quality DAC/ADC combo that can measure pretty close to an AP, I have a QuantAsylum on order myself.

And even if we aren't the audience who would purchase a $10k DAC, I'm sure some of us (not all) are willing to play with it as a beta tester.

 

[Postlan]

Besides, this isn’t some new product that the manufacturer sent it. The product is around since at least end of 2018. That means this bug went undiscovered for 5 almost years.

In other words, there is a possibility that the drivers were working perfectly on the OS in 2018. However, not verifying whether they function correctly on the current OS is nothing short of negligence on Weiss's part, and the phenomenon of sound changing depending on the settings is more troublesome for users than an obvious bug where there is no sound.

 

[voodooless]

In other words, there is a possibility that the drivers were working perfectly on the OS in 2018. However, not verifying whether they function correctly on the current OS is nothing short of negligence on Weiss's part, and the phenomenon of sound changing depending on the settings is more troublesome for users than an obvious bug where there is no sound.

The latest driver is from 23nd September and it’s just a standard Thesycon driver. Probably the drivers are just fine, and this is an issue with firmware.

 

[Rja4000]

this bug went undiscovered for 5 almost years.

Might as well be due to a recent firmware update.

 

[voodooless]

Might as well be due to a recent firmware update.

Maybe.. the last documented changes on the USB part are for 2019.

 

[Billy Budapest]

A follow-up indeed has been already performed and it showed the root cause of the poor linearity. Science does not proceed as fast as one wishes, but through a painful course of wrong turns, adjustments and incremental improvements in experiments and knowledge. I think Amirm is impeccable in his reviews.

What I mean is a follow up review after a firmware fix has been issued.

 

[AndreaT]

Besides, this isn’t some new product that the manufacturer sent it. The product is around since at least end of 2018. That means this bug went undiscovered for 5 almost years.

Nope. Five years ago the ASIO driver was likely different. Once more, we can discuss until we are red in the face, however it is so common all over the digital world: my Nikon image processor malfunctions each time a new Apple operating system appears, and sometimes even when an update is installed in my computer, my MS Word files from 1996 are all but unreadable by the current MS Word software, any video camera with composite or component RGB only is all but unusable with current monitors. In a perfect World, every manufacturer should ensure backward compatibility and update any portion of the operating software when a new OS appears. Weiss does not have thousands of employees, and while regrettable, Daniel has discussed the linearity problem with Amir and possibly a solution will be found.

Finally, five years ago the DAC world was quite different. There were few, if any, SOA DACs for less than $ 2K. I purchased a new Benchmark DAC3 DX for a little more than 2K, it still works perfectly, but on the test bench many new DACs that sell for a few hundreds beat it.