We measure audio equipment for free!!!

[Garrincha]

Me too. Problem is finding someone who is willing to loan them to me for testing. Please send a message to the companies and see if they are willing to send one in.

I got he point. It is really a shame that there is not more that be done, as my understanding is that especially the more expensive hifi gear producers are reluctant to rent their equipment for other things than "subjectivist" review. It would be really very interesting to see if this talking and self-marketing of these companies is just as exaggerated as I suppose it is. I furthermore would very much like to know the quality of the Eleven Audio Formula S and the HeadAmp Gs-X mk2 headphone amps.

 

[JSmith]

he more expensive hifi gear producers are reluctant to rent their equipment for other things than "subjectivist" review.

Exactly... what does that tell us?


JSmith

 

[Sal1950]

It would be really very interesting to see if this talking and self-marketing of these companies is just as exaggerated as I suppose it is.

Amir has measured some quite expensive gear and what I've taken away is this.
Some of the more expensive products measures really good, some doesn't.

Some is not what we consider transparent, but is designed to have a particular sound (voiced).
That type of gear will naturally not measure well, such as measured distortion in some tube type gear.

The main thing that shows up is you can buy SOTA performance for a lot less than the high end kits go for.
Completely transparent to the source SOTA amps of all type and DACs, and can be purchased for very affordable money. Paying more is no guaranty of better sound, just sometimes it's a lot prettier.

I'm not sure what the mentioned gear would measure like but I can tell you this, if what you want is a DAC that will give you the exact sound that was recorded on the file, any near the top will give you sound quality that won't be improved on no matter how much more you spend.

I furthermore would very much like to know the quality of the Eleven Audio Formula S and the HeadAmp Gs-X mk2 headphone amps.

If they have a good return policy, buy one and have it dropped shipped to Amir.
Then either keep it or send it back depending on the test results.

 

[Garrincha]

Amir has measured some quite expensive gear and what I've taken away is this.
Some of the more expensive products measures really good, some doesn't.

Some is not what we consider transparent, but is designed to have a particular sound (voiced).
That type of gear will naturally not measure well, such as measured distortion in some tube type gear.

The main thing that shows up is you can buy SOTA performance for a lot less than the high end kits go for.
Completely transparent to the source SOTA amps of all type and DACs, and can be purchased for very affordable money. Paying more is no guaranty of better sound, just sometimes it's a lot prettier.

I'm not sure what the mentioned gear would measure like but I can tell you this, if what you want is a DAC that will give you the exact sound that was recorded on the file, any near the top will give you sound quality that won't be improved on no matter how much more you spend.


If they have a good return policy, buy one and have it dropped shipped to Amir.
Then either keep it or send it back depending on the test results.

I am with you in all the points mentioned. I am a sceptic to most audiophile myths and claims and believer in the scientific method by measurements. Apart from criteria like material, design, connectivity features, touch and longevity there really seems to be no reason to spend any more money on Dacs and Headphone amps than the products of the leading chinese companies like SMSL, Topping, Gustard, the slightly more expensive Matrix or some products of american companies like JDS labs or Schiit.
But in general I am willing to spend more if there are audible improvements, but despite this irrational desire, there does not seem to be any rational reason to expect this from much more expensive prodcuts except the ones mentioned above, depite the claims of these companies. Which is in my eyes a pity. For example, nobody really needs a Ferrari, it is much more expensive than an ordinary car, but despite the better looks (not talking about longevity here!), nobody can doubt that it drives faster and accelarates better etc. Hifi seems to be different.

 

[SoNic]

I did some measurements with own sound card, E-MU 1820m. It had as ADC the AKM AK5394, with line inputs THD+N -110dB, DR 120dBA.
Non "m" models had BB PCM1804, with line inputs THD+N -102dB, DR 112dBA.

E-MU 1820 Digital Audio System

Since Windows 10 and 11 were finicky with that card, I sold it and bought a SB ZxR.

Creative Labs SoundBlaster ZXR Review

We review the Creative Labs SoundBlaster ZXR. Creative Labs has been a powerhouse force in the world of PC audio ever since there was such a concept as PC audio. Technical Specifications

www.guru3d.com

This card daughter board has as ADC the TI Burr-Brown PCM4220 with THD+N -108dB and DR 123dB.

@amirm I would be interested to test some of my heavier equipment (like Denon DVD-5000 as DAC), using the same battery of tests as in this thread. I wonder if is possible?

 

[EL_PW]

Yes, you read the title right. If you have audio gear that you like to see objectively measured with professional equipment, we (I) may be interested in doing that for you and our readers.

There is so little objective data on equipment today. Even if you are not an "objectivists" it pays to contribute to gathering some data to weed out poorly engineering products of which, there are many. Electronic design and building of audio equipment has become much easier today, allowing so many unqualified people to get in the business and building potentially unsafe and non-performant equipment. It is important for data to show such poor practices.

At the same time, there are also superbly designed equipment and they deserve standing out from the crowd and dust of all the other gear.

Also of interest is the proliferation of so many audio tweaks including many for digital and computer based audio. Previous assumption has been that what they do is not "measureable." Our record so far shows that we can easily measure their contributions if any exists. Indeed we have found a number of cases where these products actually injected noise and distortion into audio path where non existed before!

I set out originally to purchase and measure equipment myself. Alas, the budget required is massive. I will continue to contribute out of my own pocket to purchase gear but no sense in spending my limited dollars on what some of you may already own.

For convenience sake, the program likely works best for small and lighter gear where shipping and transport is easy. That rules out speakers, large amplifiers, etc, leaving devices that can be shipped reasonably for $20 to $30. In many cases I am willing to pay out of my own pocket to return the gear. So the only cost to you would be shipping to me.

This program has been informally working in the last few months and very well. I have measured and published a number of reviews and measurements with loaned equipment.

If you are interested in participating, all you have to do is "start a conversation with me" by clicking on my name/avatar and we can work out the logistics. Please note that in most cases I need to make the time to measure things so you will be without the gear for a week or two. Possibly more. But we can coordinate that in the prior arrangement. If it is equipment of high interest, I can literally turn around the view in a day or two.

Also, there is some risk of gear getting lost, damaged, etc. The type of products we are talking about is quite robust in this regard, but it can still happen. I pay for some insurance when I ship things back to at least recover some of the cost should the post office screw it up. So far we have not had any issues.

So let's join hands and work together to create a large and useful library of objective, reliable and repeatable data for users to make good decisions in purchasing audio equipment, and to guide manufacturers to build better products.

Speaking of manufacturers, I am more than happy to see them participate too and indeed a number have. I make no assurance whatsoever of happy outcome should you loan me the equipment. What I can promise is supporting you in troubleshooting problems that are revealed in my testing and review.

Thanks in advance for those of you who participate.

Hi Amir,

I have a Luxman SQ-N150 tube amp which is mercifully small and I would be happy to ship you for testing (in its factory box inside another larger box) if you're interested. It's this one:

https://www.musicdirect.com/integrated-amp/Luxman-SQ-N150-Tube-Integrated-Amplifier

Since I saw your review for the Topping PA3s I've been using and loving that as my mains amp (much to the chagrin of my Rotel and Luxman amps) so could easily do without the Luxman for 1-6 months. In fact I may be able to drive out to Seattle from Denver in April 2022 and drop it off and then we could split the shipping for sending it back. Or you could hang on to it until I come back say in December. Randall Carlson has piqued my interest in Eastern Washington geology so I don't need much persuasion to hop in the car and drive out that way. I also have some vintage Hafler amps (DH-220, SE 120) and a Rotel RB-1070 and a Crown XLI 1500 if you'd like to test any of those ..and Luxman RX 101 receiver that may be the coolest piece I've ever seen, and the mid range is to die for.

If any/all of those interest you let me know and we can make some shipping/delivery plans.

Thanks,

Patrick

 

[DonR]

^^^ VU meters!! Go on, @amirm, you know you want to,,,

 

[Ufasas]

Do you care to test such rubbish like Creative Sound Blaster G3 ? i haven't seen any deep tests of it on web

 

[Doodski]

Do you care to test such rubbish like Creative Sound Blaster G3 ? i haven't seen any deep tests of it on web

That G3 is a nice thumb drive sized DAC, headphone amp with mic input. I bet if you ask @amirm there is a good chance he would say yes to testing it.

 

[Garrincha]

Since recently IEMs were measured, I really would like to know if the ThieAudio Monarch Mk2 is as good as it is reviewed on other sites. And the FIIO K9 Pro dac/headphone amp woud also be nice to see.

 

[SoundsGood]

Hi Amir,
I have a NAD D3045 integrated amp/DAC that I would like you to test/review.
Can I send it over?

 

[Doodski]

Hi Amir,
I have a NAD D3045 integrated amp/DAC that I would like you to test/review.
Can I send it over?

@SoundsGood use the "@" sign before @amirm name and then he can get a alert that the message is directed at him.

 

[Keened]

Hi Amir,
I have a NAD D3045 integrated amp/DAC that I would like you to test/review.
Can I send it over?

He already has one

 

[Doodski]

He already has one

You sent one in already @Keened ?

 

[Keened]

You sent one in already @Keened ?

Since Amir uses the generic 'member' in his reviews I must plead the 5th

 

[Doodski]

Since Amir uses the generic 'member' in his reviews I must plead the 5th

I look forward to reading this review. Going to be a very popular amp review with the recent British and Norwegian offerings testing poorly.

 

[SoNic]

Going to be a very popular amp review with the recent British and Norwegian offerings testing poorly.

It's an 2x80W power amp weighting in 2.6 kg. Based on that I would say it is a Class D final stage.
Nothing to be excited about...

 

[amirm]

@SoundsGood use the "@" sign before @amirm name and then he can get a alert that the message is directed at him.

Thanks but I get so many alerts per day that I don't notice any of these. Best to start a conversation with me on any equipment loan.

 

[EL_PW]

Say if anyone has a Bryston integrated amp they could send to Amir for testing that would be way cool man. I sent Amir my Luxman SQ-N150 tube amp so that review will be coming up. Cheers!

 

[wisechoice]

Well, I bit the bullet and ordered a used SPL Volume8 that will be drop shipped to Amir for testing, after egging myself on with the help of others in this thread:

8-channel volume control

Assume 8 channels coming out of a multichannel DAC or 4x stereo DACs, in balanced or unbalanced format (let's assume unbal for simplicity). I want a ready to use product, no soldering/coding required. After some research I found the following options: 1. Mechanical potentiometers, e.g...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Looking forward to seeing how it measures!