Vinyl down . . . Streaming up

[Thomas savage]

Less belittling, condescending jibes please.

Can we not discuss this topic without it descending into a mud slinging format (class) war.

Move on in a more friendly tone or at least do a better job hiding your mutual contempt for one another .

 

[March Audio]

Oh c'mon. Redbook is limited to stereo. Stereo is inherently limited in it's ability to convey a 3 dimensional sound space. So redbook is also limited.

Try again, in comparison to other 2 channel formats?

 

[Analog Scott]

I am for one.

I still have my vinyl. Only play it if I don't have a CD version.

regardless of the mastering?

 

[Analog Scott]

Try again, in comparison to other 2 channel formats?

Then I'd say yes.

 

[Analog Scott]

I said the high end was dying, not dead.
How low does any particular segment of the markets numbers have to fall before you might relent to calling it dead?
Back when you say they were calling the high end dying (70-80s) the market was at a all time high point with how many mainstream and underground journals out there? And then there were 2.

As to Classical music the numbers continue to drop like a stone, but as long as it sells 10 albums in the US I'm sure you'll still be proclaiming it "alive and well" LOL

The market was at an all time high point? By what measure? And what does the number of underground journals have to do with it? And what numbers are dropping like a stone with classical music?

 

[Frank Dernie]

I think you largely have it right.

Back in the day, vinyl was the inexpensive version of music distribution to the masses. Real 'philes or hifi enthusiasts knew the reel to reel was the reference. Vinyl was about the equivalent to MP3 streaming today. Cheap, convenient and could sound alright. A REFERENCE....................get outta here..........don't be ridiculous.

S'phile and TAS always kept the tube and vinyl flame a flickering. Now yes, it is like half the magazine for S'phile. Even if LP is in a resurgence that is strange considering the relative disparity in total sells not to mention total fidelity. LP as a reference, don't be ridiculous.

True LP was the cheapest way to distribute music and had loads of compromise in order to manufacture it. The digital equivalent is indeed MP3.
The idea that it is anywhere near reference quality is indeed ridiculous, but it does sound nice to me and I enjoy my LPs from time to time and my 4 record players, which all sound different, unlike the CD players and DACs I have tried which all sound the same.
I probably listen to LPs for 5% of my listening.

 

[Frank Dernie]

regardless of the mastering?

Didn't you write that you use a Koetsu cartridge? Lovely but very, very different frequency balance to CD due to the early and considerable hf roll off. Maybe it is just this difference you actually like.
Maybe you also would prefer your own LP playing system to one using a cartridge with a less rolled off treble, like an Ortofon. I have owned both so am familiar with the difference I speak about.

 

[Analog Scott]

Didn't you write that you use a Koetsu cartridge? Lovely but very, very different frequency balance to CD due to the early and considerable hf roll off. Maybe it is just this difference you actually like.
Maybe you also would prefer your own LP playing system to one using a cartridge with a less rolled off treble, like an Ortofon. I have owned both so am familiar with the difference I speak about.

Yes I use a Koetsu Rosewood Signature. I also use a Sure V15 with a Technics TT. I very much prefer the Koetsu. I am sure the signature sound of the Koetsu as well as the Forsell TT is very much a part of what I like about vinyl sound. That is one of the advantages of vinyl playback. There are a multitude of sonic signature options in that format.

 

[Purité Audio]

You could try rollling off the H/F on your digital playback, you might like it.
Keith

 

[Analog Scott]

You could try rollling off the H/F on your digital playback, you might like it.
Keith

I have that adjustment on my speakers and yes it does help with some CDs.

 

[Thomas savage]

No danger of nasty high frequency goings on in this pub ...,

 

[Purité Audio]

A ‘traditional’ NOS dac will roll off treble and you might find the added distortion enjoyble, they are quite popular with listeners who have grown up with vinyl.
Keith

 

[Analog Scott]

A ‘traditional’ NOS dac will roll off treble and you might find the added distortion enjoyble, they are quite popular with listeners who have grown up with vinyl.
Keith

Any particular suggestions?

 

[Frank Dernie]

Yes I use a Koetsu Rosewood Signature. I also use a Sure V15 with a Technics TT. I very much prefer the Koetsu. I am sure the signature sound of the Koetsu as well as the Forsell TT is very much a part of what I like about vinyl sound. That is one of the advantages of vinyl playback. There are a multitude of sonic signature options in that format.

Quite so. There are huge variations in frequency response of different cartridges as well as quite a few differences in feedback path due to design and placement varying the added reverb one gets thus, so loads of ability to tune the sound to taste.
I moved away from the Koetsu RS a few months after getting a CD player since it started sounding a bit dull, if lush, to me in comparison.
I currently have a Goldmund Reference with T3f arm and Ortofon a90 cartridge with occasional use of EMT 938 with Decca or Pickering cartridge. My favourite cartridge is the Decca, but it doesn't track all records so I keep it on a TT with detachable headshell arm (even though I know they add noise. The T3f has a fixed headshell and is a much better arm but is a pain to change cartridge. The A90 plays anything and is quite near the Decca in my preference.
I haven't owned a Koetsu for a long time now, I keep thinking of getting one but it would be an indulgence which is a bit daft for thew amount of use it would get...

 

[Frank Dernie]

Any particular suggestions?

The usual suspects are Audio Note (UK) and Lampizator

 

[Analog Scott]

Quite so. There are huge variations in frequency response of different cartridges as well as quite a few differences in feedback path due to design and placement varying the added reverb one gets thus, so loads of ability to tune the sound to taste.
I moved away from the Koetsu RS a few months after getting a CD player since it started sounding a bit dull, if lush, to me in comparison.
I currently have a Goldmund Reference with T3f arm and Ortofon a90 cartridge with occasional use of EMT 938 with Decca or Pickering cartridge. My favourite cartridge is the Decca, but it doesn't track all records so I keep it on a TT with detachable headshell arm (even though I know they add noise. The T3f has a fixed headshell and is a much better arm but is a pain to change cartridge. The A90 plays anything and is quite near the Decca in my preference.
I haven't owned a Koetsu for a long time now, I keep thinking of getting one but it would be an indulgence which is a bit daft for thew amount of use it would get...

A Goldmund Reference is certainly a nice indulgence in and of itself.

 

[Analog Scott]

The usual suspects are Audio Note (UK) and Lampizator

Those are a bit pricey. Maybe someday. I have other things on my to buy list and to audition list that would take priority. Thanks for the recomendations

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Intresting, from my ‘ buying experience ‘ SACD is less visible than ever before. Those I knew with SACD players.., well no longer have them.

Maybe SACD player sales would be a valid barometer ? How many of those are multichannel?

If you want multichannel Audio then going SACD seems backwards to me as your limiting yourself, a deal of the content Iv come across has been bundled with the CD as PCM DVD.

Not that going backwards has stopped some folks ( including me, with my SACD player and all) .

I do look for SACD’s of my favourite music but they are never (rare, like penguin shit in the desert) available.

Depends on where you are looking. Have you tried this full index of SACD and BD-A releases? It is priceless with over 10,000 entries. Here:

http://www.hraudio.net/home.php

I never had a problem with Amazon or numerous other US or European, mainly British sites, unless they are OOP or limited to the Japanese market. But, if what you are looking for is not classical, then, yes, releases in other genres are indeed sparse, especially in recent years. And, many are remasters from analog, offering often questionable sound quality improvements vs. CD.

No, SACD player sales are not a barometer. That number is huge in sales because of all the Universal players that support it - Oppo, Sony, etc., etc. But, clearly, not all users play SACD on these players or have even heard of it. No way to judge that. I have never seen data on SACD disc sales. They are always inseparably lumped in with CDs.

Not sure if I follow why going Mch is limiting yourself. To me, it is the other way around. Mch players and systems also play in stereo, at least the last time I looked. You mentioned friends. Most of my audio friends strongly prefer Mch playback with discrete hirez Mch recordings as offering the best quality audio reproduction there ever has been to date with no signs of relenting. I buy nothing else, myself, and SACD has been the most prolific choice for that.

Incidentally, my Oppo 103 player is used only for ripping SACDs to my NAS, not for direct listening.

Never heard of PCM DVD, though there was briefly DVD-A. Seriously, not much happening with those ideas.

As a tiny niche within a niche, classical hirez Mch afficianado, I realize I am in a tiny minority. But, wonderful new releases keep on coming to satisfy me. I have over 4,000 SACDs on my NAS, predominantly in Mch, plus hundreds of BD-V's, BD-A's and Mch downloads. I do not feel limited or as if I am dwelling in the past.

I think your observations are a bit, no other way to say it, myopic.

 

[Thomas savage]

Depends on where you are looking. Have you tried this full index of SACD and BD-A releases? It is priceless with over 10,000 entries. Here:

http://www.hraudio.net/home.php

I never had a problem with Amazon or numerous other US or European, mainly British sites, unless they are OOP or limited to the Japanese market. But, if what you are looking for is not classical, then, yes, releases in other genres are indeed sparse, especially in recent years. And, many are remasters from analog, offering often questionable sound quality improvements vs. CD.

No, SACD player sales are not a barometer. That number is huge in sales because of all the Universal players that support it - Oppo, Sony, etc., etc. But, clearly, not all users play SACD on these players or have even heard of it. No way to judge that. I have never seen data on SACD disc sales. They are always inseparably lumped in with CDs.

Not sure if I follow why going Mch is limiting yourself. To me, it is the other way around. Mch players and systems also play in stereo, at least the last time I looked. You mentioned friends. Most of my audio friends strongly prefer Mch playback with discrete hirez Mch recordings as offering the best quality audio reproduction there ever has been to date with no signs of relenting. I buy nothing else, myself, and SACD has been the most prolific choice for that.

Incidentally, my Oppo 103 player is used only for ripping SACDs to my NAS, not for direct listening.

Never heard of PCM DVD, though there was briefly DVD-A. Seriously, not much happening with those ideas.

As a tiny niche within a niche, classical hirez Mch afficianado, I realize I am in a tiny minority. But, wonderful new releases keep on coming to satisfy me. I have over 4,000 SACDs on my NAS, predominantly in Mch, plus hundreds of BD-V's, BD-A's and Mch downloads. I do not feel limited or as if I am dwelling in the past.

I think your observations are a bit, no other way to say it, myopic.

Limiting yourself as in sticking to a physical SACD rather than doing what you do..

PCM dvd , DVD-Audio is PCM or LPCM is it not? Iv got a few of those knocking about, presumably a fair few made it off physical media and can be down loaded or indeed one can rip them like you do with your SACD’s so sticking with a SACD player might limit one ( maybe one wants to enjoy some concerts other than classical in surround , shock horror)

But who knows, I’m not sure why you think I was saying your example was limiting tbh.

Physical SACD is limited though, it makes no sense to me for it to be a expanding market and Iv seen no sign of it being so.

 

[Frank Dernie]

A Goldmund Reference is certainly a nice indulgence in and of itself.

Yes, but I bought it 27 years ago!