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Vintage amplifiers that could challenge or approach current state of the art amplifiers

DanielT

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NAD208 is a candidate, right? Has it been mentioned in the thread? :) NAD208: Stereo Power Amplifier (1992-95), if it counts as vintage?


If NAD208 is difficult to service (easy or difficult to work with), maintain, spare parts and so on, I know nothing about that. But I know there are those who still use NAD208 after so many years, that should indicate that it is an good power amp.:)
 

dlaloum

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Given the pace of change in audio equipment, I'd say that anything over 25 years old counts as vintage.
And yet, some designs have stood the test of time.... Quad 405 became 606, 707, 909,.... Altera... the changes are minor - and 405 came out in 1975...
 

Nitreb

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I still have the Yamaha CA-1000 I bought in 1976. It works fine.
 

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mhardy6647

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I still have the Yamaha CA-1000 I bought in 1976. It works fine.
I'm OK with that... ;)



The CA-610II I bought in 1978 still works fine and looks good. It's been repaired once in its nearly 44 year lifespan (not counting cleaning controls approximately every 5 years).
Ironically, it's not on that shelf.


Here I have found a radical opinion about vintage amplifiers. Let me post a summary taken from "select45rpm". This is really extreme, but intriguing:

The Best Amplifiers & Receivers by era.
The valve era
appears to have the best in the Japanese made Sansui, Trio & Pioneer receivers, if they are still quite limited in spec. The USA McIntosh, Fisher & Sherwood appear to be of high quality but aren't in the UK usually to try. The UK brands like Leak, Lowther, Rogers, Quad as well as other small brands can be nice though they are less advanced than the Japan & USA product. Look for 10-20w for the best quality sound, an amplifier of 15w equals about 60w in transistor volume. But generally valve amps pre 1970 are nice but not as good as you hope they'd be...
I realize this isn't yours but I must comment.
My comment: umm... yeah... no.
Sorry if the "tube curious" in the UK cannot find Fishers, Scotts, Sherwoods, Macs, and Marantz (valve power amps and a preamp only) of that era. That doesn't improve the quality of the Sansui, Trio (Kenwood, in the US) and Pioneer equipment of the same era. It was/is fair in performance and messy in layout and build quality. Sansui did use very nice output transformers, though.



And transistor vs. tube watts? Don't get me started.

:)
 

RickSanchez

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I'm OK with that... ;)



The CA-610II I bought in 1978 still works fine and looks good. It's been repaired once in its nearly 44 year lifespan (not counting cleaning controls approximately every 5 years).
Ironically, it's not on that shelf.



I realize this isn't yours but I must comment.
My comment: umm... yeah... no.
Sorry if the "tube curious" in the UK cannot find Fishers, Scotts, Sherwoods, Macs, and Marantz (valve power amps and a preamp only) of that era. That doesn't improve the quality of the Sansui, Trio (Kenwood, in the US) and Pioneer equipment of the same era. It was/is fair in performance and messy in layout and build quality. Sansui did use very nice output transformers, though.



And transistor vs. tube watts? Don't get me started.

:)

I'm assuming you also have a similar size rack that houses your collection of 8-track players ... :p
 

pseudoid

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Sometimes I think I need to get another hobby,
Whachoo got in mind? TikTok? FPS? Tweeter? Basket weaving? I say stick with the joy of music and stop over-analyzing that pleasure.

My problem with rock-solid amplifiers (pfffft to 'receivers') is that I must have a hoarding problem. Especially when I pay good money for quality amplifiers. They stick to you (and me) worst than Omicron...
How does one justify to get rid of an AdcomGFA555 or a RotelRMB1565 that refuse to die?
 
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dlaloum

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I moved my Adcom GFA555-II on, as I found it disappointing with 2 sets of completely different speakers (Quad ESL67, and Klipsch Forte)

The Quad Current Dumper amps sound noticeably better with both speakers (Quad 405 & 606) - so off it went....

The Quad amps are sitting in my own personal "pile" of gear I cannot (emotionally) get rid of .... although they currently don't have a role in my main system - that could change in the future with system/speaker changes.

And I would not trash Receivers - "big" receivers can be remarkably good... Although the recent AV oriented receivers tend to get "elderly" in their feature set really quickly, the good ones can still sound fantastic driving a set of speakers in Stereo.... (and with a power supply designed for 7 channels, they typically do very well driving stereo!)

And of course the big receivers of the late 70's and early 80's were high end devices!
 

DanielT

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Only pick-up, in the vicinity where I live. BUT as the coconut I am, missed to place a bid . Not in mint condition but good price, US $ 60
(that model is quite popular in Sweden, it usually cost more)

Classic vintage amplifier from the mid 70's!
Works but is in need of service and overhaul due to scratches in the knobs!
Missing a speaker cable attachment!


Then there is the feeling. He probably needs to spray a little with electronics spray on potentiometers, but other than that the childish joy an adult man can have over a Hifi gadget.:p
Check out 3:45 in the video:


 

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DanielT

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I'm OK with that... ;)



The CA-610II I bought in 1978 still works fine and looks good. It's been repaired once in its nearly 44 year lifespan (not counting cleaning controls approximately every 5 years).
Ironically, it's not on that shelf.



I realize this isn't yours but I must comment.
My comment: umm... yeah... no.
Sorry if the "tube curious" in the UK cannot find Fishers, Scotts, Sherwoods, Macs, and Marantz (valve power amps and a preamp only) of that era. That doesn't improve the quality of the Sansui, Trio (Kenwood, in the US) and Pioneer equipment of the same era. It was/is fair in performance and messy in layout and build quality. Sansui did use very nice output transformers, though.



And transistor vs. tube watts? Don't get me started.

:)
Mmm ahaa.:D

e77792169b8788a253dfa9b5ad59e440_w200.gif
 
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mhardy6647

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It's just stuff.
I went through this "collect 'em all" phase with late 1970s-vintage Yamaha a couple-three decades ago, driven by 1) nostalgia, 2) aesthetics, and 3) sonics. I do like the stuff, still.
Almost all of the Yamaha stuff on that rack works. Much of it has been rehabbed, although the TC-1000 does not sound good -- and, in full disclosure, I've never had the nerve to investigate the functionality of the CA-2010. It was too cheap to pass up, but also too cheap to assume anything but the worst (even though it was sold to me as working). ;)

The hk430 is a pretty nice piece of kit, IMO -- plus, the hk aesthetic of that era was very elegant, to my eye (and to my taste).


 
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restorer-john

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Here I have found a radical opinion about vintage amplifiers. Let me post a summary taken from "select45rpm". This is really extreme, but intriguing:

The Best Amplifiers & Receivers by era.
The valve era
appears to have the best in the Japanese made Sansui, Trio & Pioneer receivers, if they are still quite limited in spec. The USA McIntosh, Fisher & Sherwood appear to be of high quality but aren't in the UK usually to try. The UK brands like Leak, Lowther, Rogers, Quad as well as other small brands can be nice though they are less advanced than the Japan & USA product. Look for 10-20w for the best quality sound, an amplifier of 15w equals about 60w in transistor volume. But generally valve amps pre 1970 are nice but not as good as you hope they'd be...

By 1965-68 Transistors take over. There are very few receivers of 40w-45w & we seem to have found the best ones are the Japanese brands as noted below. Amplifiers of this era are only really the Sony TA-1120(A) to go over 40w as our List Of Amplifiers page shows. Some of the best amplifiers are receivers with the tuner, such as Sansui 3000A & National Panasonic SA-65. Others like early Trio-Kenwood & Pioneer we've found enjoyable. The only problem with these is the age, an amp pre 1969 is best used fully rebuilt & upgraded, to use them raw & aged will have them seenm to be not very good.

By 1969-72 Hifi is onto it's 2nd & 3rd generation in transistors. The Sound can be of high quality though the richer bassier valve sound is not around now. Still enough decent 40w+ amps & receivers though you will find cost cutting on some brands. The highest rated domestic Hifi beyond Sony pre & power combo is 65w for the Teac AG-7000 & Sony TA-1130, both are excellent amps which we've had. The Sony TA-3200F power amp is 100w, the Sony STR-6200F is 60w. Generally these are Capacitor Coupled designs if some Semi-Complimentary Direct Coupled ones are around. The quality is still good in this era, the era of wood cases with real wood veneer shows that cost cutting hasn't happened yet.

By the 1973-77 era Hifi gets into Discount Stores & the Cost Cutting Starts. This is pre the Receiver Wars era of 1978-79 and due to economics, there is a lot of budget hifi of not much quality starting around 1971 & by 1973 there are so many rubbish cheap amps sold it's not easy to see the better amps as few stock them. Some brands dip in quality with Sony & Pioneer generally making midprice quality with heavy cost cutting. Sony go low power & cheap by 1972, JVC-Nivico waste time with Quadraphonic & never recover the earlier quality. Pioneer suffer harsh cost-cutting as they sell well at big discounts, a foolish waste if a money maker. There are exceptions and Yamaha thrive in this era with many fine amps & receivers, they stay out of the Discount stores from their 1971 midprice range & the clasic 1973-78 range. By the 1976 era there are amps of 100w being introduced & from what we've noticed looking at circuits, there can be the odd top range gem amid the lower spec averageness. We've rated Pioneer as being heavily cost cut & the SX-850/950 sound rough & very limited in spec. But then we find the big SA-9000 series amps are very different, with the SA-9500 at 80w has a very good simple circuit, but cost-cutting is obvious, but the SA-9900 at 110w goes too much into overdesign & the later SA-9800 is ridiculously overdesigned. At this point by 1976 the top of the range item is overdesigned, the lower ones are cost cut with ICs but the one second to the top can be the best one. Also with Yamaha, the CA-800 is a nice design but the CA-1000 starts to get overdesigned resulting in the poor CA-1010 that is 100w but way too overdesigned. The CR-2020 can upgrade well but the amp as original is too warm & unfocussed. The CR-3020 looks way overdesigned too.

By 1978-80 the Receiver Wars are the game & much insane overdesign with the need for 300w is the deal. 300w is to drive very inefficient small speakers that need high current, totally against our ideas of Hifi. By this era many look the same, garish design based on the Pioneer SX-850 & even UK Leak copied this style & got theirs built in Japan. By this era Yamaha dipped in quality with the CR-2040 range having many ICs in the audio, Pioneer's SX-980 goes similar. The Receiver Wars were over as the 1980 HFYB proves as even Marantz go back to lower powered midprice gear after their excessive 300w & 340w receivers. By 1981 the sort of Hifi you could still find in 1991 was the deal, if silver was now black & progress in Hifi appears to have got even more cost cut with higher power as the Amazon & Richer Sounds type amps show. After 1980 there are an amount of 'exotic' type amps, many stuffed with ICs that claim to be better Hifi than they are, delivering a cold boring sound. The 1965-77 era is the best in Vintage Hifi, even buying a modest 25w will sound so much better than the majority of post 1980 gear.

What is that classic saying about opinions? ;)
 
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restorer-john

restorer-john

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...but do you know the 'classic saying' about an expert?

Experts were once amateurs who kept practicing?
Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why?
 

pseudoid

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Just -- do NOT ask me about FM tuners.
I gotta... that Yamaha tuner made me drool.
Do you realize that my current AVPre has an input specifically labeled "Tuner" but not even they make one, anymore.
DaySequrra (One), MagnumDynalab (MD90), McIntosh (MR87) are not an option
That leaves only Denon/Tascam with XLR outputs (no Rolls or Galaxy)
Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why?
The 'classic saying' I heard about an "expert" is a 2-liner and the 1st line is "Ex is a has been, and..."
 

Tmort

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The Kenwood power amps were very good, but had aggressive current limiting below 4 ohms and the Mk2 power amps are prone to going up in smoke due to stability issues. At one point, I had 7 of them. They are all sold and gone now. This is my pic from 2007. I kept the left hand pair up until a few years ago

View attachment 70129

The Onkyo M-508 is a lovely power amplifier for sure. I don't own one of those, and I've only ever worked on one. All it needed was meter illumination repairs.
John, you seem to know quite abit about the L07m amps. I have a pair owned since new in 77! One is in the shop now as it won’t turn on….but my question is this. I just purchased a pair of Martin Logan electromagnetic ELS speakers, I was planning to use the kenwood amps to power them but based upon your comments here that might be an issue, my understanding is that these speakers while rated as 6 ohms, they present the amp with a varying load that can dip down to 2 ohms, if the L07m is not stable down there I could fry my new, fairly pricey for me, speakers.
thoughts?
 

BlueTunes

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I am baffled by the idea that old equipment can match or best modern. (Within a reasonable comparison, junk will always be junk)

Doesn't make any sense at all.

Aging components don't really matter?
What have the design companies been doing all these decades if the old stuff is better than new?

I suppose if you compare the state of the art amplifier from 1980, serviced and restored, with an average modern amplifier, you might get some parity but that is not apples vs apples.
 
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