Uptone EtherREGEN

[ccw]

Why would anyone shame themselves publicly among their buddies by admitting "I couldn't hear a difference"?

(I would, but, I stick around here, and decline listening tests except for moments of self flagellation)

Why would not hearing a difference be shameful?? I don't have any loyalty to Uptone and anyone else that is positive about the EtherRegen. Who knows, maybe my system won't benefit for whatever reason. I'll be sure to let you know.

Now, on the other hand, some of the folks here who are invested in hurling juvenile ridicule and not listening..... I can't imaging them admitting error. Pretty embarrassing, I would imagine.

 

[amirm]

Now, on the other hand, some of the folks here who are invested in hurling juvenile ridicule and not listening..... I can't imaging them admitting error. Pretty embarrassing, I would imagine.

Every headphone amp review I do has listening tests in it. You must not have been around us enough to know how much value we put on proper listening tests.

We just don't chase improperly done ones per my last post.

 

[amirm]

Why would not hearing a difference be shameful?? I don't have any loyalty to Uptone and anyone else that is positive about the EtherRegen. Who knows, maybe my system won't benefit for whatever reason. I'll be sure to let you know.

Ah, you are already making excuses for why you may not hear the difference. We are here to answer that "who knows" part. With proper engineering analysis, objective and subjective evaluation. You are welcome to join our camp but come in without assuming the thing must do something even if you don't hear it. You are giving away the farm before even starting....

 

[thyname]

So you guys never seen the light of the EtherRegen, and yet, you are absolutely certain it does nothing? And willing to bet $10,000 on it? What happened to measurements?

 

[DonH56]

 

[amirm]

So you guys never seen the light of the EtherRegen, and yet, you are absolutely certain it does nothing? And willing to bet $10,000 on it? What happened to measurements?

Aren't you certain some remedies don't work for you? That if you have a cold, rubbing garlic on your toes does nothing?

As to what happened to measurements, that is your stereotype of us, not ours. We understand the workings of the product you use. We use that knowledge to analyze what a device can or cannot do. We do measure the ridiculous as I did with ISO USB Regen. That way, we can point to data as well as explaining why something doesn't work. But it is not usually necessary.

So yes, we are so confident of our knowledge of audio systems and products that we can make very strong bets regarding them. How about you? You go into these as if it is like a flip of a coin no matter what?

 

[ccw]

Every headphone amp review I do has listening tests in it. You must not have been around us enough to know how much value we put on proper listening tests.

We just don't chase improperly done ones per my last post.

When I do a listening test, I do so as you describe above. I think it has served me pretty well. I don't underestimate expectation bias.

 

[thyname]

All I was saying is it’s clear what the verdict on EtherRegen is in this forums even before it was launched. It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that. Just by reading the posts here.

So yes, we are so confident of our knowledge of audio systems and products that we can make very strong bets regarding them. How about you? You go into these as if it is like a flip of a coin no matter what?

‘How about me? I buy them, and listen to them for myself. The old fashion way: with ears.

 

[Blumlein 88]

You’re loosing your time here... Nobody will seriously engage in an open discussion. The first thing they will ask is to show measurements. I’d say my measurements are my one ears. The rest I really don’t care. I received my Etherregen and I am very happy with it. For the others that claim that Ethernet switches don’t do a difference, let them stay in the ignorance. I don’t have patience nor time to try to convince them otherwise.

There is listening by using one's ears. We love that at ASR. There is listening using ones eyes and ears. Which did you do?

 

[DonH56]

I don't need to go to the surface of the sun to know it is hot, nor do I need to stare at it to know that it is bright. There are things that are well-known and understood, for decades if not centuries, that are completely dismissed by the anti-science crowd. As is the unreliability of human senses.

Edit: Long day, bad headache, time to leave off cranky posting and go practice for Sunday's rehearsal -- sorry guys.

 

[amirm]

When I do a listening test, I do so as you describe above. I think it has served me pretty well. I don't underestimate expectation bias.

Expectation is the least of our problems. The major fault comes when you try to compare gear, you listen differently than when you just enjoy music. You focus more, so you hear more even if nothing has changed. To do this test right you need to:

1. Run the test blind. Have a loved one change the setup without you knowing which is which. Have them keep a log and you do the same. Have them not change sometimes.

2. Run at least 10 trials. You need to get at least 8 right for the results to be statistically valid.

3. Not an issue here but if volumes can change in the test, that needs to be equalized. This device can't change volume so this is not relevant in this case.

Look forward to seeing the logs from you and loved one at the end of the test.

 

[Blumlein 88]

All I was saying is it’s clear what the verdict on EtherRegen is in this forums even before it was launched. It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that. Just by reading the posts here.



‘How about me? I buy them, and listen to them for myself. The old fashion way: with ears.

Ears.............or ears and eyes? Controlled listening or uncontrolled listening?

 

[ccw]

Ah, you are already making excuses for why you may not hear the difference. We are here to answer that "who knows" part. With proper engineering analysis, objective and subjective evaluation. You are welcome to join our camp but come in without assuming the thing must do something even if you don't hear it. You are giving away the farm before even starting....

I think you're misinterpreting what I said. I don't assume the EtherRegen will do anything in my system. I'll judge that when I carefully listen to the best of my ability.

 

[amirm]

I don't need to go to the surface of the sun to know it is hot, nor do I need to stare at it to know that it is bright. There are things that are well-known and understood, for decades if not centuries, that are completely dismissed by the anti-science crowd. As is the unreliability of human senses.

Edit: Long day, bad headache, time to leave off cranky posting and go practice for Sunday's rehearsal -- sorry guys.

No worries Don. I am going to show patience and goodwill and see what gets us.

 

[thyname]

Ears.............or ears and eyes? Controlled listening or uncontrolled listening?

Controlled listening? What does that even mean? I listen for pleasure. As a hobby. For enjoyment. This is not a job for me.

 

[ccw]

Expectation is the least of our problems. The major fault comes when you try to compare gear, you listen differently than when you just enjoy music. You focus more, so you hear more even if nothing has changed. To do this test right you need to:

1. Run the test blind. Have a loved one change the setup without you knowing which is which. Have them keep a log and you do the same. Have them not change sometimes.

2. Run at least 10 trials. You need to get at least 8 right for the results to be statistically valid.

3. Not an issue here but if volumes can change in the test, that needs to be equalized. This device can't change volume so this is not relevant in this case.

Look forward to seeing the logs from you and loved one at the end of the test.

Your description is exactly the way I do listening tests. It's saved me some serious $$, believe me...

 

[amirm]

I think you're misinterpreting what I said. I don't assume the EtherRegen will do anything in my system. I'll judge that when I carefully listen to the best of my ability.

You didn't understand what I explained then. It matters NOT whether you think it will or will not do any good. You can still come up with the wrong conclusion using your "ears." You have to follow the protocol I mentioned or you are fooling yourself.

Bias is but one factor that causes incorrect outcome. There are many others.

 

[Ron Party]

I hadn't seen the Trollmeter before. Me likey.

 

[amirm]

Controlled listening? What does that even mean? I listen for pleasure. As a hobby. For enjoyment. This is not a job for me.

When comparing gear, you are not enjoying anything. You are embarking on a very different task than enjoying music. You are trying to determine some facts, using an artificial process.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Controlled listening? What does that even mean? I listen for pleasure. As a hobby. For enjoyment. This is not a job for me.

Amir has already replied to this. Controlled listening means level matched and blind so your ears are guiding you. So you'll not think you hear a difference when there isn't one. If you are comparing different bits of gear, this is an effective method. Just listening while noting your impressions, and seeing how happy you are with it is at best very unreliable.

Now once I'm done comparing things, sure I just fire everything up and listen for pleasure to the music.