respice finem
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BTW here's a video of the hearing aid filter solution - looks much more "mature", but in another price class...
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TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
No way, that's crazy! Good to hear!Your right, I’ve just checked the floor in my office and they were under the seat.
Blimey these things are tiny, they should put them in a small envelope or plastic bag. I can imagine I’m not the only person to loose these. I’ve put them in a small sleeve so I don’t loose again
Kev
In terms of sound, frequency response is the vast majority of what matters. The science is quite clear on this.
julian_hughes
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The Moondrop instructions are at https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/...ssories-for-spaceship-kxxs-starfield-earphone
They make it sound easy though
Actually sometimes it easy. That's the time you get it just so. The previous two or three times might be quite the challenge.Good for you. In that case the Zero may be your endgame for life.
Anyone else find that putting tips on is a colossal PITA? Kind of like pushing a rope...After you finally get them on. the next time is easier but Lawd, that first time... Very impressed otherwise, all the more so for the price. Makes you wonder how a lot of other manufacturers justify their price points given what you get here for peanuts in audio dollars.
Got these because of the low price and to evaluate the 'Harman Curve' since they adhere to it so closely. Still making up my mind on that. I listen to a lot of acoustic bass- bass duet is a favorite format- and there are times I find myself thinking "Hmm, an acoustic bass doesn't sound like that..." Definitely a different signature than my Etys, much more like my Periodics.
Got these because of the low price and to evaluate the 'Harman Curve' since they adhere to it so closely. Still making up my mind on that. I listen to a lot of acoustic bass- bass duet is a favorite format- and there are times I find myself thinking "Hmm, an acoustic bass doesn't sound like that..." Definitely a different signature than my Etys, much more like my Periodics.
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To interject into your conversation, I'd expect measured frequency response of IEM's to be more important than that of over ears, in terms of the one variable that dictates their overall experience, as I think the soundstage aspect of over ear headphones that is not just explained by the dummy head measurement to have a quite significant influence on the desirability/enjoyment of over ear headphones - so I might expect there to be less voodoo with IEM's, I don't think there is scope for soundstage in IEM's beyond their frequency response measurement (but I might be wrong). In which case for IEM's you might argue that frequency response measurement & distortion measurement is all that matters.
Emlin
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And, as has been highlighted above, fit.
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Well- you could try these. https://www.linsoul.com/products/oe-cime-mmcx?variant=28360873541732
Given its Linsoul I assume the 2 pin is the 0.78 mm "standard" variety but I dont like the fact its not got a smaller "step" between the base of the pins and the full width of the plug housing (as some IEM have a recessed socket for the pins) .
Quite a lot of money if it doesnt work. Also, might make wearing awkward as you will have a very long hard doubled up plug coming out with the cable
kencreten
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I was hoping some of you might have comments about the following story about the Truthear Crinacle Zero IEM. I had an interesting reaction to their sound vs. some of my other equipment and though others might want to comment. I'm a measurement based person, bought them based on the measurements Amir performed here, and this caused part of my surprise to their sound. Of course, I'm 59, and for my age, I have good hearing... but not perfect. Other than some frequency differences between R/L in my hearing, I'm pretty good up to about 13khz, which I'm very happy about. But we all know about the weaknesses of the human hearing system.
My speakers are Neumann KH80s. I have an Elac S10EQ sub, and I sit very close to my monitors and keep the volume relatively low to reduce room interaction. I also have Shure SRH1840 headphones, and a Schiit Magni Heresy headphone amp. I use a Dayton DSP-408 to distribute the analog signals, and perform EQ.
First the uninteresting part, I had trouble making them fit in my ears. They were not deep enough for my ear canals. I made them work by having different ... ear pieces. Which might be a problem sonically?
As far as testing them for sound, I used the song Dr. Feelgood by Motley Crue which was produced by Bob Rock. I'm a fan of Rock's production style and have listened to the 16 bit digital master of the original production hundreds of times. The song/album has gone through several remasters, none of which I've liked as much as the original production. Audio wise it's a messy song. There are competing arenas of sound in the song that I think Rock blends masterfully. I've listened to the song hundreds of times on various types of equipment. So I'm using that song and various bits and pieces of it to compare the "sound" of what I'm used to, and the Truthear Crinacle Zero IEMs.
They seem like they are very high quality. I was able to get them to fit using two different sized silicon ear pieces. My ear canals are deeper than the reach these provide. But once I got them functioning properly my first response was, "they sound good." But then very quickly alarm bells started going off about the differences between how I'm used to hearing the production of the Dr. Feelgood song, and what I was hearing. I thought the mid-low end was pretty good, but the high end I found... It's hard to describe. So, I decided to focus on one aspect of the sound I could define.
Part of the Dr. Feelgood song is Tommy Lee's playing on the cymbals. They are very large sounding and he does interesting things with the high hat during the song. Specifically I found that the "sound envelopes" of the cymbals was different from what I was used to. First of all they were quieter, and the envelopes, therefore sounded as if they started later and ended sooner, in the mix. The frequency response and distortion levels on these headphones are fantastic as shown in the measurements, but I heard the cymbals/high hat in a different way on the Truthear phones. I do not at all like non-audio words to describe audio phenomena. But simply, the cymbals on my Shure headphones were louder, and "larger." Perhaps them being louder meant I could hear more of the envelope of the levels of the cymbals better. I did not think that the high end on the Truthears was distorted, only that the levels were lower, and so the cymbals, at least, sounded... somewhat cut off.
That's all I have to say and would welcome some comments or suggestions. For me, my experience has been, if the measurements are right, and you buy it, then it sounds relatively transparent. These sound good, but ... not "transparent?" I question my ability to define any differences in detail, especially with the measurements, but would love any comments. I really like the Truthear headphones and would definitely recommend them as well, they sound very good.
Here is how I the frequency response set for each thing. For the Shure SRH1840s the frequency is set based on I think... Amir's measurement of them, or perhaps someone else's. The notch at the top was the main thing he pointed out. I like low end, and the SRH1840s were a bit shy there, and I do not over-stress these headphones volume wise. I tend to like a little less on the very high end, so tend to take that back a bit. The Elac subs have their own frequency response setting and I feed them everything below 80hz, crossed over with the Neumanns.
My speakers:
My speakers are Neumann KH80s. I have an Elac S10EQ sub, and I sit very close to my monitors and keep the volume relatively low to reduce room interaction. I also have Shure SRH1840 headphones, and a Schiit Magni Heresy headphone amp. I use a Dayton DSP-408 to distribute the analog signals, and perform EQ.
First the uninteresting part, I had trouble making them fit in my ears. They were not deep enough for my ear canals. I made them work by having different ... ear pieces. Which might be a problem sonically?
As far as testing them for sound, I used the song Dr. Feelgood by Motley Crue which was produced by Bob Rock. I'm a fan of Rock's production style and have listened to the 16 bit digital master of the original production hundreds of times. The song/album has gone through several remasters, none of which I've liked as much as the original production. Audio wise it's a messy song. There are competing arenas of sound in the song that I think Rock blends masterfully. I've listened to the song hundreds of times on various types of equipment. So I'm using that song and various bits and pieces of it to compare the "sound" of what I'm used to, and the Truthear Crinacle Zero IEMs.
They seem like they are very high quality. I was able to get them to fit using two different sized silicon ear pieces. My ear canals are deeper than the reach these provide. But once I got them functioning properly my first response was, "they sound good." But then very quickly alarm bells started going off about the differences between how I'm used to hearing the production of the Dr. Feelgood song, and what I was hearing. I thought the mid-low end was pretty good, but the high end I found... It's hard to describe. So, I decided to focus on one aspect of the sound I could define.
Part of the Dr. Feelgood song is Tommy Lee's playing on the cymbals. They are very large sounding and he does interesting things with the high hat during the song. Specifically I found that the "sound envelopes" of the cymbals was different from what I was used to. First of all they were quieter, and the envelopes, therefore sounded as if they started later and ended sooner, in the mix. The frequency response and distortion levels on these headphones are fantastic as shown in the measurements, but I heard the cymbals/high hat in a different way on the Truthear phones. I do not at all like non-audio words to describe audio phenomena. But simply, the cymbals on my Shure headphones were louder, and "larger." Perhaps them being louder meant I could hear more of the envelope of the levels of the cymbals better. I did not think that the high end on the Truthears was distorted, only that the levels were lower, and so the cymbals, at least, sounded... somewhat cut off.
That's all I have to say and would welcome some comments or suggestions. For me, my experience has been, if the measurements are right, and you buy it, then it sounds relatively transparent. These sound good, but ... not "transparent?" I question my ability to define any differences in detail, especially with the measurements, but would love any comments. I really like the Truthear headphones and would definitely recommend them as well, they sound very good.
Here is how I the frequency response set for each thing. For the Shure SRH1840s the frequency is set based on I think... Amir's measurement of them, or perhaps someone else's. The notch at the top was the main thing he pointed out. I like low end, and the SRH1840s were a bit shy there, and I do not over-stress these headphones volume wise. I tend to like a little less on the very high end, so tend to take that back a bit. The Elac subs have their own frequency response setting and I feed them everything below 80hz, crossed over with the Neumanns.
My speakers:
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So I'm interested to see if the 600's fit, but I'm wondering why one would change the cable.
I like a lightweight cable so that it does not pull on the earphones. A lot of these aftermarket cables seem thick and heavy which is the opposite of what I would want. Maybe you could elaborate on why you decided to change.
Likely due to the below-target deficiency in the upper bass (~125-200 Hz), around the fundamental of male vocals, exacerbated via contrast either side by the strong mid-bass and broadband excess in upper midrange / treble:
It seems unlike you, some others have been a bit taken in by Truthear's pseudoscientific (false) marketing gimmick saying you need a 'subwoofer in an IEM!' (despite theirs ironically actually significantly lacking in sub-bass
). No, you don't. As IEMs operate in pressure-chamber conditions, if the front volume is well-sealed, a single dynamic driver even in a $5 IEM can produce plenty (with inaudibly low distortion), even all the way down to 10 Hz, and likely beyond, which is behind the reason why they, and over-ear headphones that have a very high degree of front volume seal, are usually perceived to have good bass 'impact' aka @Resolve 's (in)famous 'slam' (at least the bass part of his nebulous description of it), and is also related to the perceived difference between dynamic and balanced armature bass in IEMs. Every company wants a unique selling point for their products, and as is so often the case with many others before them, Truthear have invented one that no-one actually needs. This pro 'subwoofer in an IEM' bias priming, combined with a frequency response that is deliberately deficient in upper bass but strong in mid-bass, is likely to give the illusion of hearing a 'subwoofer' distinct from the rest of the frequency range. But as anyone who has experience with actual subwoofers paired with mains speakers knows, the last thing you want is to be able to sonically distinguish between them. Instead you want as smooth a blend between them as possible, and the Truthear Zero's (relative) upper bass dip / mid-bass hump combo does not seem to be conducive to that.
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Hi, so the main problem you have with the Truthears is that you don't feel that cymbals & high hats are represented significantly & well enough. That is very interesting, because my experience was the opposite, there were times I was thinking these cymbals are sounding more defined & prominent vs my other headphones - approaching more towards my JBL 308p studio monitors. That is strange that we have directly and I mean directly opposing experiences in that high frequency zone. Could it be anatomy related I wonder, inasmuch as the Harman IEM Target Curve when it comes to IEM's doesn't give you enough high end &/or maybe in a wrong and antagonistic shape in that area. But first, which tips are you using? The foam tips might take away the high end where the cymbals live. Ah, you're using silicon tips, I reread your post - so it's not that. The IEM's haven't pushed a load of wax into your ear & blocked them up have they? (Also, what happens if you push IEM's into your ear without releasing the pressure by holding your ear up & keeping your mouth open as you insert them......does increasing the pressure in that area reduce sensitivity to high frequencies (maybe that's what you've done) - I don't know, just free forming some ideas.) Does each channel sound the same, you don't have one defective channel do you?
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“key point about IEMs: everything I talk about and the research relies on proper seal.” Would be grateful for more info on fit especially size. The weight suggests light enough and sits in ear so think not an issue. Size still a question. I prefer smallest! size with foam tips, Shure fit me e.g. SE535. Original Noble falcon wireless also have narrow nozzle not to deep, light fit fine but they protrude so wiggle out moving around, no wire easy to fall. Had Sensaphonics custom soft silicone very comfortable but got damaged. For convenience traveling, walking, prefer something less fragile and expensive. The Zero pics, thanks for close up, appear reasonably small not to long. If cable not to rigid or fragile considering the risky import.
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I love mine. Nothing to add really they are just excellent. The bass is a bit strong to my taste at higher levels but i don't usually listen loud so suits me fine. The mid sized tips fit me comfortably and I would have preferred a fabric braided cable but for the price these are remarkable. I have paid significantly more just for shipping on many of my other audio bits and bobs....
There is a little bit of card that comes in the pack called "installation guide". It has indents like it is supposed to be folded (into a triangle?). Does anyone know what that is for?
There is a little bit of card that comes in the pack called "installation guide". It has indents like it is supposed to be folded (into a triangle?). Does anyone know what that is for?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #1,217
Seal is everything in IEMs. Try this: press on them a bit while playing. Does the bass improve? If so, your seal is not good enough. Try also rotating them a bit to see if that makes a difference.
Mine has one asymmetrically mounted grille too. Also on the left side. It bugs me that it's like that but I can't think that it makes a difference audibly. At least not to my ears. I did try to apply a little pressure to see if it would click in place and it doesn't. These were only $50 and sound really good so I feel like I shouldn't make a stink about it. Still would like for it to correct.
That's why professionals like acoustic scientist Sean Olive, and acoustic engineer Oratory, control for this by standardizing the insertion force, and measuring at 5 different insertion depths respectively.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #1,220
Careful there. There is a difference between research goals and real life. You have no idea how you are inserting the IEM in your ear. So the fact that research uses fixed insertion depth doesn't do you any good. As to averaging, that is a form of a filter and worst of the kind. It gets skewed heavily by outliers.
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