TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review

[Garrincha]

Sorry but I think he answered your question, it was a closed question, yes or no. He thinks no. You really want to push that 2 identical frequency response with low enough distortion will sound exactly the same. It’s a fair belief. It make sense, but unforunately you won’t get a consensus on that. Not from research, not for the engineers working in designing headphones, not from science in a wider sense. Yoû’ll get opinions, It appears that your opinion is that the scope of what is being measured in a suite of standard measurments like we see in these page is all and complete in defining audio reproduction of transducers, all else, details « technicalities », etc, are meaningless. Me, my opinion, I agree they are meaningless, they are just word trying to describe Subjective assessments. But then, after we said that. It’a a large stretch, between « meaningless » and « all differences are imagined » From then on plenty of theories and hypothesis, Dan Clark don’t thinks everything can be measured, Putzeys think everything can be measured but it’s not necessarily the most obvious measurments that are the most defining, other have their views. Bottom line there is no consensus one ideas like « speed don’t exist » or « details is just more high » or Soundstage, etc, etc. Me I think that for electronics, pretty much sorted. In transducers… Even Amir will always put value on his listening assessment for speakers and headphones. Me I think, opinion, You ask questions that will not get you answers that are backed by facts, I think you have to accept that and accept that it’s ok for someone to say: It’s not obvious from this suite of tests, but this sound better to me than this. Because, well, the acoustic part of the reproduction chain is not all sorted, headphones sound differents, speakers sound different, once this is cleared out, well this is the factual part, then it’s interresting to try to find out why But it’s no simple binary solution to this.

I have no final opinion on this question. But he did definitely not answer my exact question, which stated the condition that two different IEMs could both be EQed perfectly to a target curve and he said something about resonances that might prevent that. But nevertheless, it seems that for headphones, as compared to amps, DACs and even speakers, the percentage what can be measured to determine the sound is the lowest. There was the case of the Mark Levison which closely followed the Harman curve but still did not sound all that great. For IEMs this is probably a bit easier as they anyway do not have a huge soundstage and so detailed imaging. But I tend more and more to believe that most, if not all, terms that are usually called technicalities, like speed, detail, air, et. are either non-existent or a consequence of the FR.

 

[pseudoid]

The sound you get is like the best speaker in best room with no room modes

I am neuroscientifically challenged:
How do IEMs present the 'stereo effect', the presence and the soundstaging of the actual recording to the right auditory cortex?

Seems Sounds to be an unnatural way of listening and seems a bit like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[SuicideSquid]

Sounds to be an unnatural way of listening

All methods of recording and reproducing sound are unnatural.

 

[AndreaT]

I just purchased a pair on Amazon. It will be interesting to be able to listen to one of the items reviewed on ASR finally. Even more interesting will be, judging by the number of people buying these IEMs, there will be a common reference for a lot of people when comparing to other headphones etc..

It will be interesting…however I worry it might become a vociferous contest toward highly subjective descriptions of emotions during Music listening. The gold reference for me is my center 12th row seat at Symphony Hall, however it might not be your reference or his/hers. It is very good that Amir has found an inexpensive product with impeccable tonality and with tolerable distortion at reference listening levels (even listening volume is highly subjective, though), however it requires a HPA capable of delivering high currents. Not every HPA has the competence to drive 10 ohms.

A few steps further in the perception chain of events, I could argue that my Na/K pumps in the VIIIth cranial nerve and my dendrites in the brain stem/thalamus/cortex are more/less excitable or deliver a wider frontal projections than yours. Another variable, very dear to me, is how we train our sensory inputs to become optimal for intensity and focus of our attention and vigilance. Are our sensory organ trainable by will and experience, to hear better? As my listening habits have evolved toward a more dedicated positioning of my head and undivided attention of my hearing toward the musical wave/signal of the speakers, I have lost interest in playing background music, and therefore I play music less often.

In summary, I am glad I will soon listen to a neutral tonality reference IEM for less than the price of one dinner for two at a mediocre restaurant. The proposal of a common reference is very useful and the debate of the merits of these IEM might offer useful insights.

 

[AndreaT]

I am neuroscientifically challenged:
How do IEMs present the 'stereo effect', the presence and the soundstaging of the actual recording to the right auditory cortex?
View attachment 231065
Seems Sounds to be an unnatural way of listening and seems a bit like comparing apples and oranges.

Most neuroanatomical and neurophysiological studies are on animals. Here is a reference. We are imo very, very far from a final explanation of the mechanisms of conscious sound and music perception.

Frontiers | When and How Does the Auditory Cortex Influence Subcortical Auditory Structures? New Insights About the Roles of Descending Cortical Projections

For decades, the corticofugal descending projections have been anatomically well described but their functional role remains a puzzling question. In this rev...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[GaryH]

Think I'll stick with my $5 Sony MH755 (with or without EQ). You don't want to skimp on sub-bass with IEMs as they provide zero tactile bass. Bonus: no pedopackaging.

 

[Kyle / MrHeeHo]

Think I'll stick with my $5 Sony MH755 (with or without EQ). You don't want to skimp on sub-bass with IEMs as they provide zero tactile bass. Bonus: no pedopackaging.

I would probably go with the zero because of how low the distortion is. Sony products do not have a good track record when it comes to distortion especially on the budget end

 

[amirm]

How do IEMs present the 'stereo effect', the presence and the soundstaging of the actual recording to the right auditory cortex?

The comment was regarding tonality, not total perception.

 

[Garrincha]

Anyone has these and Tin T2 to compare?

I don't have the Tin T2, and after looking at the FR I will not get it any time soon:

 

[CedarX]

I understood that Harman Labs established their “target curve(s)” to maximize user preference. I don’t think they ever claim it would always be the absolute best for any particular individual, or did they?
Another point in the discussions about EQ: is the assumption that two IEMs EQ’d to show the exact same FR on a given test fixture must ‘sound’ the same on your own ears correct? I thought the correlation between two test fixtures, or a test fixture and your own ears, was… non linear at best… or worse case, not even a (mathematical) function. Two IEMs EQ’d to show perfectly identical FR on a given test fixture may show (minor?) FR differences if the insertion depth varies, others FR differences when measured on a different test fixture model, and unknown FR differences on your own ears.
Amir keeps reminding that it is not an exact science…

 

[nsfgp]

Ordered my Zero IEM just now -> the 7hz Salnotes Zero (Incidentally Crin very likely are also involved in that IEM).

 

[Chromatischism]

This is a really fun review. On paper it meets all the criteria of a really excellent IEM at a very reasonable price point. A good chunk of objective reviews online point this out but then has criticisms about its grain, instrument separation, and detail. There is almost always a caveat of for the price but due to its price point it is easy to justify trying. It will be interesting using these in comparison to other Harman complaint headphones like the AKG N400 or the Etymotic ER2/4XR and their house curve.

I'd like to see someone hand those guys IEMs blindfolded so they have no idea what they are or how much they cost. It would be really interesting to see if the impressions change.

 

[Sean Olive]

Are there any details on methodology that stands behind Harman curve? To be truth, I`ve been musician for most of my life (started at age 7, now I`m 38, typical classical trening and pro life), any time I`ve been listeting to HPs close to, or EQed to Harman curve, they sounded faaaaar from what instruments sound like in reality.

I wrote an article about the Harman Target Curve in Acoustics Today:

The Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality- What Do Listeners Prefer?​

The Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality- What Do Listeners Prefer? - Sean E. Olive

acousticstoday.org

I doesn't really deal with the IEM Target but much of the same rationale and testing methodology was used for both.

 

[suttondesign]

I wrote an article about the Harman Target Curve in Acoustics Today:

The Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality- What Do Listeners Prefer?​

The Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality- What Do Listeners Prefer? - Sean E. Olive

acousticstoday.org

I doesn't really deal with the IEM Target but much of the same rationale and testing methodology was used for both.

very nice, sean.

 

[jae]

I'd like to see someone hand those guys IEMs blindfolded so they have no idea what they are or how much they cost. It would be really interesting to see if the impressions change.

Of course it would change

 

[GaryH]

I would probably go with the zero because of how low the distortion is. Sony products do not have a good track record when it comes to distortion especially on the budget end

Nope. The MH755's THD is just as good (even better in the sub-bass if you were to EQ the Truthear up to Harman):

With low IMD too:

(Measurements by @Earfonia )

 

[NoteMakoti]

Bought this when it was announced on a whim, and I'm glad I did. It's a really fun set.

 

[sweetchaos]

I wrote an article about the Harman Target Curve in Acoustics Today:

The Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality- What Do Listeners Prefer?​

The Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality- What Do Listeners Prefer? - Sean E. Olive

acousticstoday.org

I doesn't really deal with the IEM Target but much of the same rationale and testing methodology was used for both.

This is huge. Thanks for the link.

I've created a new thread, since this deserves it's own discussion.

The Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality- What Do Listeners Prefer?

Today, @Sean Olive had posted a new article he's written about the "Harman Target Curve". Title: "The Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality- What Do Listeners Prefer?"...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Sean Olive]

I understood that Harman Labs established their “target curve(s)” to maximize user preference. I don’t think they ever claim it would always be the absolute best for any particular individual, or did they?
Another point in the discussions about EQ: is the assumption that two IEMs EQ’d to show the exact same FR on a given test fixture must ‘sound’ the same on your own ears correct? I thought the correlation between two test fixtures, or a test fixture and your own ears, was… non linear at best… or worse case, not even a (mathematical) function. Two IEMs EQ’d to show perfectly identical FR on a given test fixture may show (minor?) FR differences if the insertion depth varies, others FR differences when measured on a different test fixture model, and unknown FR differences on your own ears.
Amir keeps reminding that it is not an exact science…

That's correct. The Harman Target is intended only as a guideline. The data suggests it will satisfy 64% of the listeners (AE/OE Target) without adjustment but for other segments some bass and/or treble adjustment may be necessary to account for differences in taste, hearing loss, or difference in ear anatomy.

Will two IEMs with identical FR measured on the same test fixture sound the same? Assuming their distortion is below threshold. they seal properly and are inserted in your ears at the same depth -- they should sound pretty darn close. We published a paper where we equalized several AE headphones to the same frequency response leaving only distortion differences as the primary cue -- and the headphones with low distortion sounded remarkably similar.

 

[kongwee]

I wonder how long it will last. I'm still sticking with Apple earpod 3.5m since I bought iPhone SE. I have owned two IEMs that cannot out last Apple earpod.