Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

[Bugal1998]

Not sure if it's been posted, but these are the specs from the JBL SDP-75 manual. Supposedly the same DACs (and therefore performance?) across the Trinnov product lines.

 

[Spocko]

Supposedly the same DACs (and therefore performance?) across the Trinnov product lines.

Not necessarily the same performance should be assumed just because the DAC chip is shared between two similar products. DAC performance is the sum of its many parts aside from the chip itself including analog stage, circuit design, etc.

 

[amirm]

@amirm Now that you've had your hands on both the Trinnov and StormAudio units, which would you choose if you had to choose one?

I need to evaluate the processing in each to know. I no longer have Storm to do that but have the Trinnov. Ask me again after I have done that.

 

[Balle Clorin]

I am eagerly awaiting the Optimiser review. It is not a small undertaking to test this device

In the meantime, this review digs into the details...
Trinnov Amethyst: Stereo preamp with ingenious room EQ for 9,800 euros (lowbeats.de)
This fits with my own impression as an owner, especially the comment about voices and the effect of too aggressive correction there. Using multi point correction and tuning the advanced parameters brings back more liveliness the vocals after correction. An again, a flat target is NOT what we want.. Amirn you have to make your own target, the defaults are too flat, a 2-5db lift is required in the bass.

Set the FIR length longer for more accurate bass correction

Bass tuning

 

[TGB]

You can not only look at the frequency response curves and increase the length of the FIR filters. Listen and select what you think sounds the best is my suggestion. The default settings in the Altitude is a very good starting point for the Optimizer. You should be careful and aware of the "cost"; there is always a cost to all changes in the settings

Edit:
I have managed to get measure-perfect curve from my subs down to < 0.5dB; and the Optimizer is capable of completely "removing" the room. This does not however result in a good sound. So conclusion - use with care and don't look only at the measurements. Also REW is not measuring the same (it is a different microphone + a different system), so kind of dangerous to directly compare. It is easy to kill the sound with Optimizer if you overdo it.

 

[Spocko]

You can not only look at the frequency response curves and increase the length of the FIR filters. Listen and select what you think sounds the best is my suggestion. The default settings in the Altitude is a very good starting point for the Optimizer. You should be careful and aware of the "cost"; there is always a cost to all changes in the settings

Edit:
I have managed to get measure-perfect curve from my subs down to < 0.5dB; and the Optimizer is capable of completely "removing" the room. This does not however result in a good sound. So conclusion - use with care and don't look only at the measurements. Also REW is not measuring the same (it is a different microphone + a different system), so kind of dangerous to directly compare. It is easy to kill the sound with Optimizer if you overdo it.

IIRC Floyd Toole is convinced that some room reflections are necessary for spatial cues and sound to feel natural especially first reflections in 2 speaker systems. It’s a bit less clear how much the room should be removed in multichannel systems but I suspect the more speakers the less you need wall reflections for spatial cues. I’d like to hear what @Matthew J Poes thinks about this as he’s currently setting up Trinnov systems for clients and will be helping me with my setup once the electrical work is done for my home theater.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Agree, too much correction and the spaciousness around vocals and some instruments are dimished. Especially for single point correction. I think correction below a few 100 Hz is good , and with good speakers correction above 1k may not be required, even if most do benefit from correcting the anechoic response . The Optimizer allows for tuning both reflections and frequenct response resolution , and phase, independently. Optimising the Optimizer is an “endless task” and getting help from an experienced user is very useful.

 

[thrangster]

My understanding is they revised the current DAC to get better performance and those are already in production. Units with the improved performance I don't think are in the U.S. distribution yet. I asked Trinnov support and they said to work with your dealer if you want to be certain you have the improved version. I was also told that serial numbers starting with below will have the tweaked DAC for better performance.
Altitude 16- 1308
Altitude 32- 1390

Is there a planned upgrade process, do you know...?

 

[TGB]

Is there a planned upgrade process, do you know...?

You can probably upgrade, but there is no need. You will never hear the difference anyway. Trinnov did not recommend to upgrade, this is done for the reviewers

 

[thrangster]

You can probably upgrade, but there is no need. You will never hear the difference anyway. Trinnov did not recommend to upgrade, this is done for the reviewers

Yes, but if I ever upgrade to something else, I would prefer to answer a prospective buyer of my unit in the affirmative if they ask "do you have the BETTER chip???"

 

[TGB]

Yes, but if I ever upgrade to something else, I would prefer to answer a prospective buyer of my unit in the affirmative if they ask "do you have the BETTER chip???"

This is not the first DAC upgrade, current upgrade is just a redesign of DAC board with exact same chip (it is a minor tuning). I'm expecting more upgrades will come (when is unknown), but I still don't think it will be auditable. Reason for this focus on upgrade of DAC boards from Trinnov is that they find it cool with reviews and it probably leads to increased sales. Stress down, you know which DAC chip you got based on serial number (they seems to be correct, posted previously here). Only 2 DAC board revisions exist (exactly same DAC chip on both).

I however find it interesting that Trinnov based on question if they recommend upgrading units with first generation of DAC boards, response: NO! Save your money, you will never be able the hear the difference. If you own an Altitude32 (expect a program for the Altitude16 will show up when the Altitude16 starts to get close to 5 years since release), they have the service program that renews all components to latest revision and adds an additional 5 years factory guarantee (when the existing run out); perfect time to upgrade DAC modules in my opinion.

By the way, upgrade to something else? There are no other alternatives in existence besides moving from Altitude16 to Altitude32

 

[thrangster]

This is not the first DAC upgrade, current upgrade is just a redesign of DAC board with exact same chip (it is a minor tuning). I'm expecting more upgrades will come (when is unknown), but I still don't think it will be auditable. Reason for this focus on upgrade of DAC boards from Trinnov is that they find it cool with reviews and it probably leads to increased sales. Stress down, you know which DAC chip you got based on serial number (they seems to be correct, posted previously here). Only 2 DAC board revisions exist (exactly same DAC chip on both).

I however find it interesting that Trinnov based on question if they recommend upgrading units with first generation of DAC boards, response: NO! Save your money, you will never be able the hear the difference. If you own an Altitude32 (expect a program for the Altitude16 will show up when the Altitude16 starts to get close to 5 years since release), they have the service program that renews all components to latest revision and adds an additional 5 years factory guarantee (when the existing run out); perfect time to upgrade DAC modules in my opinion.

By the way, upgrade to something else? There are no other alternatives in existence besides moving from Altitude16 to Altitude32

Not stress at all.. and yes, it would seem highly unlikely I would ever move on from the Trinnov (SDP), but over the years, I know with certainty there are no certainties!

What service program are you referring to?

 

[TGB]

https://www.trinnov.com/en/blog/pos...ar-warranty-extension-program-for-altitude32/

 

[Spocko]

You can probably upgrade, but there is no need. You will never hear the difference anyway. Trinnov did not recommend to upgrade, this is done for the reviewers

Couldn't agree more

 

[Spocko]

Yes, but if I ever upgrade to something else, I would prefer to answer a prospective buyer of my unit in the affirmative if they ask "do you have the BETTER chip???"

Considering there's not a bunch of these for sale second hand, it's doubtful they the prospective buyer has many options for haggling "ok, I'll take $100 off"

 

[TGB]

Considering there's not a bunch of these for sale second hand, it's doubtful they the prospective buyer has many options for haggling "ok, I'll take $100 off"

I can hardly ever remember seeing an Altitude32 for sales (second hand), I have seen a few Altitude16 - and they all are upgrading to Altitude32

 

[Spocko]

I can hardly ever remember seeing an Altitude32 for sales (second hand), I have seen a few Altitude16 - and they all are upgrading to Altitude32

DOH so I have the Altitude16 LOL but I know I won't be selling it any time soon - 16 channels is just enough for my purposes.

 

[TGB]

DOH so I have the Altitude16 LOL but I know I won't be selling it any time soon - 16 channels is just enough for my purposes.

Absolutely no reason to buy the Altitude32 unless you need more than 16 channels. I'm currently only using 22, but have 32 available. Considering adding VOG and Surround2 speakers, but no rush. Active crossover for the front speakers an additional alternative.

Currently at 9.4.9.

 

[Soundmixer]

1KHz sine With all those harmonic distortions for trinnov, £17k daylight robbery. The denon avc-x8500h only a little better and I can matrix additional channels for 25 channels out of the 13.

Those additional "channels" would not be discrete, and the SNR would likely increase from the "matrix" process on those additional "channels".

 

[Soundmixer]

Not even barely (no offense, Bear) enough RCA on the back panel, now is there in case the digital soundtrack atmos fails, for proper Dolby 4.2.4 and how good is the Dolby dsu is it flawed with crosstalk leaking into LR and surround.

Keep this in mind. Soundtracks in the home don't "fail", that is specifically a theatrical digital system issue. There is no need for a failsafe backup system like they NEEDED in the theaters.

DSU is a highly upgraded version of Dolby X and Z. It has more multiband processing (5 bands), and much faster steering speeds for less interchannel leakage. It does not sound "Atmos" like as Neural X does, but it is it sounds much better with two-channel content than Neural X does.