Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

[apgood]

When you test the Room Optimiser, please make sure to also try proper sloped target curve with a moderate bass boost. I and other Trinnov users find the default curves ,that are flat as a ruler , a poor choice. I really do not understand why Trinnov do not have a preset curve more like Dirac/Harman . With my old ears and speakers I skip often correction above 1kHz or just a very slight target slope above 2khz- too much slope above 2k becomes too dull , ruler flat in room is too bright, too much bass lift =muddy
Multipoint calibration vs single point can make a big difference.
Testing the Optimiser to find the optimum is not done in one evening, weekend or even a week. Easy to try but Endless possibilities in settings does take a long time to master

Dirac has the same issue out of the box. They have some Harman like curves you can download, but you have to wonder why they don't just make it a built in selection option.

With Optimizer I can actually understand it more as it's background is a tool for professionals (with a class leading feature set to dial things in) not the owner and they are till in an active enhancement of things like their Setup wizard for end users as far as I'm aware.

 

[Ellisr63]

How many Filters or PEQs can you do per speaker?

 

[TGB]

How many Filters or PEQs can you do per speaker?

I tested with 80+ PEQ filters (each channel) + Optimizer activated.

 

[Ellisr63]

I tested with 80+ PEQ filters (each channel) + Optimizer activated.

WOW!

 

[TGB]

WOW!

I don't think you will ever need this insane number of PEQ filters. The normal approach would be to use PEQ to push down the peaks to the range of the Optimizer. You can of course leave everything to the Optimizer, but experience has shown that it is wise to not let Optimizer work in a to extreme range, hence use PEQ for the highest peaks.

 

[sondans]

I would not expect remapping to matter in that scenario. You can adjust the EQ curves independently of the PEQ.

The biggest the advantage of the JBL is the preprogrammed compensatory EQ for JBL and Revel speakers. With a Revel setup, the JBL was the logical choice for me.

I recently purchased 5 Revel Be speakers (C426Be + (4) F226Be's and emailed Harman tech support to check on availability of JBL AEQ for my speakers but did not get a response. My dealer also checked with Harman engineering and they confirmed availability of AEQ for my Revel speakers. I ordered the JBL SDP-75 about a week ago. Yesterday I got an email from Harman from my earlier inquiry which stated that AEQ is not available for any of the Revel Be speakers and Harman is not planning to make that data available in the future. My dealer also got the same email. Needless to say we're both a bit upset about the conflicting information from Harman and he is going to find out what happened early next week.

If that AEQ data is not available I am thinking of buying the Altitude 16 instead for the following reasons 1) 4% lower price 2) speaker remapping 3) JBL unit is "new" but a couple years old since manufactured and and has an older 7 channel HDMI vs newer 8 channel HDMI w/ eARC on the Altitude 16. OTOH the JBL has the faster 24/192 processor vs the Altitude 24/96 processor.

 

[Blackdevil77]

What is the MSRP for an altitude 32 with 16 channels vs the 16? What else do you get with the 32 that you don’t get with the 16?

 

[DonH56]

What is the MSRP for an altitude 32 with 16 channels vs the 16? What else do you get with the 32 that you don’t get with the 16?

I don't know the MSRP off-hand.

Look on their website and I think there's a list, but it may be buried in the manuals. I know I had to dig a bit and ultimately got a list from my dealer. I don't remember everything, but the ones I do are that the Altitude 16 is not upgradeable to more channels, while an Altitude 32 with 16 channels can be upgrade later (up to 32 at that time), and the Altitude 32 (however many channels you get) processes at a higher bit rate (e.g. 192 kS/s instead of 96 kS/s or something like that). There were a few other differences but those are the two I remember. At the time I got mine, about 2-3 years ago, I was able to get a "B" stock Altitude 32-24 for essentially the same price as a new Altitude 16 so went that route.

HTH - Don

 

[Blackdevil77]

I don't know the MSRP off-hand.

Look on their website and I think there's a list, but it may be buried in the manuals. I know I had to dig a bit and ultimately got a list from my dealer. I don't remember everything, but the ones I do are that the Altitude 16 is not upgradeable to more channels, while an Altitude 32 with 16 channels can be upgrade later (up to 32 at that time), and the Altitude 32 (however many channels you get) processes at a higher bit rate (e.g. 192 kS/s instead of 96 kS/s or something like that). There were a few other differences but those are the two I remember. At the time I got mine, about 2-3 years ago, I was able to get a "B" stock Altitude 32-24 for essentially the same price as a new Altitude 16 so went that route.

HTH - Don

If that’s the case I would get the 32 as long as the price difference isn’t drastic. The Dacs are the same? Once source said the 16 was $17,000 and the 16 channel 32 was $29,000. Seems a bit insane if true. Almost double the cost

 

[TGB]

In Norway (including 25% VAT/TAX):
Trinnov Altitude16: 180.000 NOK
The Altitude32 with 16 channels and 3D Codec pack: 282.500 NOK

This leaves the Altitude32 57% more expensive than Altitude16. The Altitude16 is dirt cheap compared to what you get.

Difference:
- Altitude32 got Intel i7, Altitude16 got Intel i3
- Altitude32 can push out 192kHz for each channel (up to and including 24 channels), everything above is 96kHz. Altitude16 is always max 96kHz
- Everything in the Altitude32 is upgradable (module based). For Altitude16 I think only the HDMI board is ment to be upgraded
- Different ventilation (Altitude32 creates less noise, not a problem for the Altitude16 unless you are sitting right next to it)
- Altitude32 got DB25 connections (both for digital input/output and analogue outputs), makes cable management much better
- Altitude32 got 16 channels AES/EBU output and inputs
- Altitude32 got linear power supply for the analog parts
- Altitude32 also got a bunch of additional analog inputs
- Altitude16 got 4 programable 12V trigger outputs (in addition to one 12V trigger input), the Altitude32 only got one input and output (passthrough) for 12V trigger
- Altitude16 can be put in/out of standby via IR remote; this is not possible with Altitude32
- Also the Altitude32 got double amount of RAM.
- The Altitude32 can be extended to 48 individually decoded outputs and total of 64 processing outputs with the Altitude48 Ext

Altitude32

Altitude16

Altitude48 Ext

 

[sondans]

What is the MSRP for an altitude 32 with 16 channels vs the 16? What else do you get with the 32 that you don’t get with the 16?

The MSRP of an Altitude 16 is $18,000 and the microphone is an additional $800. I don't know the cost of an Altitude 32 but I believe the similiar16 channel JBL SDP-75 lists for about $28,000 w/o microphone.

I am able to get the JBL for just a bit more than the Altitude 16 but am quite disappointed that they will not be supporting AEQ for Revel Be speakers going forward.
Here's a copy of email I got from Harman technical support.

Thank you for writing and choosing our products.

I apologize for the delayed response here.

Unfortunately AEQ files will not be available for the Revel BE product line. It was something we've done in the past to try to better support our Revel customers but additional data needs to be captured in the anechoic chamber for this that most processors and amps can not make use of. Going forward these AEQ files will be available only for the JBL Synthesis speakers and can be applied within the flagship JBL Synthesis Processor the SDP-75.

I've attached the current list. Additional JBL models will be added in an up coming sw release for the SDP-75.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Select an AEQ:
W890 LW, M106 LW, C208 LW, M2-HF, JBL 4367, Voice2 LW, F208 LW, SCL-3 LW, LSR 705i, W8783 LW, M2-LF, LSR 708i, M16 LW, SAM1-2-Config-1 LW, C205 LW, SCL-2 LW, W990 LW, SCL-4 LW, C783 LW, Salon2 LW, Studio2 LW

 

[apgood]

The MSRP of an Altitude 16 is $18,000 and the microphone is an additional $800. I don't know the cost of an Altitude 32 but I believe the similiar16 channel JBL SDP-75 lists for about $28,000 w/o microphone.

I am able to get the JBL for just a bit more than the Altitude 16 but am quite disappointed that they will not be supporting AEQ for Revel Be speakers going forward.
Here's a copy of email I got from Harman technical support.

Thank you for writing and choosing our products.

I apologize for the delayed response here.

Unfortunately AEQ files will not be available for the Revel BE product line. It was something we've done in the past to try to better support our Revel customers but additional data needs to be captured in the anechoic chamber for this that most processors and amps can not make use of. Going forward these AEQ files will be available only for the JBL Synthesis speakers and can be applied within the flagship JBL Synthesis Processor the SDP-75.

I've attached the current list. Additional JBL models will be added in an up coming sw release for the SDP-75.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Select an AEQ:
W890 LW, M106 LW, C208 LW, M2-HF, JBL 4367, Voice2 LW, F208 LW, SCL-3 LW, LSR 705i, W8783 LW, M2-LF, LSR 708i, M16 LW, SAM1-2-Config-1 LW, C205 LW, SCL-2 LW, W990 LW, SCL-4 LW, C783 LW, Salon2 LW, Studio2 LW

I had heard that the JBL SDP-75 would be getting the ability to use PEQ but not sure if it's already available, so you could add the corrections in yourself (same as you would on the Trinnov) if you can get Revel correction info from another source if they aren't providing AEQ data for your speaker models.

 

[TGB]

AEQ for speakers got no real value. Required PEQ are affected by your room, not the speakers in a laboratory

 

[sondans]

AEQ for speakers got no real value. Required PEQ are affected by your room, not the speakers in a laboratory

This is the first time I have heard that AEQ is of no real value. Harman has been promoting this as a very significant benefit when using speakers for which AEQ is available. OTOH I have also heard that Trinnov's "speaker remapping" may not be of much benefit either. Setting these "controversial" benefits aside, your previous comparison of Altitude 16 vs 32 shows some significant hardware / connectivity advantages for the Altitude 32.

- Altitude32 got Intel i7, Altitude16 got Intel i3
- Altitude32 can push out 192kHz for each channel (up to and including 24 channels), everything above is 96kHz. Altitude16 is always max 96kHz
- Everything in the Altitude32 is upgradable (module based). For Altitude16 I think only the HDMI board is ment to be upgraded
- Different ventilation (Altitude32 creates less noise, not a problem for the Altitude16 unless you are sitting right next to it)
- Altitude32 got DB25 connections (both for digital input/output and analogue outputs), makes cable management much better
- Altitude32 got 16 channels AES/EBU output and inputs
- Altitude32 got linear power supply for the analog parts
- Altitude32 also got a bunch of additional analog inputs
- Altitude16 got 4 programable 12V trigger outputs (in addition to one 12V trigger input), the Altitude32 only got one input and output (passthrough) for 12V trigger
- Altitude16 can be put in/out of standby via IR remote; this is not possible with Altitude32
- Also the Altitude32 got double amount of RAM.
- The Altitude32 can be extended to 48 individually decoded outputs and total of 64 processing outputs with the Altitude48 Ext

The above summary provides a good basis to make a buying decision between an Altitude 16 and a heavily discounted 16 channel JBL SDP-75. I believe the JBL hardware is almost the same as the16 channel Altitude 32.

 

[DonH56]

The value of AEQ, or even PEQ, is debatable. Some say it is critical, others say with the Optimizer and all the power of the Trinnov units it is superfluous. I don't really know, have not spent much if any time thinking about it. With more limited filter options in other processors it may be more important.

The higher sampling rate and extra I/O was not a reason for me to buy the Altitude 32, but was nice to know. Remapping is another thing pushed harder by some than others; for me it was not a big deal, and in fact some key Harman folk actually argue against it (it can do good, it can do harm, like many things).

I cobbled an IR trigger input for my SDP-75 (which will work fine on an Altitude 32 since another owner used it) from cheap Amazon components. It is controlled by my Harmony One same as everything else so one touch turns everything on or off.

The JBL SDP-75 is a rebadged Trinnov Altitude 32 so hardware is identical except for the faceplate.

I use an inexpensive Emotiva trigger repeater with my SDP-75 -- had it for years since I needed more than one trigger output from previous AVRs.

 

[TGB]

The JBL SDP-75 is a rebadged Trinnov Altitude 32 so hardware is identical except for the faceplate.

Yes, it is the exact same device with some difference in software - hardware (the inside) is 100% identical - or at least extremely close (I'm not sure if there are differences in available inputs or 12V triggers or similar).

 

[DonH56]

Yes, it is the exact same device with some difference in software - hardware (the inside) is 100% identical - or at least extremely close (I'm not sure if there are differences in available inputs or 12V triggers or similar).

No differences with mine, anyway...

 

[jhaider]

AEQ for speakers got no real value. Required PEQ are affected by your room, not the speakers in a laboratory

Yes and no. In the frequency range where the room dominates, yes EQ based on listening area measurements is the way to do it.

However, above the transition region the direct response of the speaker is what matters more than anything. People here seem to harp on "PIR" (predicted in-room response), but in truth it has very little value IMO. Go back to Toole and read about the curve-drawing study. When trained listeners were asked to draw a crude FR of a loudspeaker they heard, their drawing correlated to the direct response, not the PIR, above the transition region. Therefore, one should expect that well-tailored equalization that works on a speaker's known anechoic or scanned performance will improve observed fidelity. By contrast, EQ above the transition region based on listening area measurements is a crapshoot. It may help, but it's just as likely to hurt.

 

[RUR]

Yes, it is the exact same device with some difference in software...

No speaker remapping for JBL. May or may be a drawback, depending on your wants/needs.

 

[sondans]

A 16 channel JBL SDP-75 along with four Revel F226Be speakers will be delivered later today. I already have a C426Be. Three Benchmark AHB2s will complete the setup ...... at least for the time being.
Thank you to everyone on this forum to help me work through this purchase.