Topping Pre90 Review (preamplifier)

[ElNino]

And thats you need to know. Some users complained that they use older dacs or other equipment that would "have problem" with low input impedance. While RCA has 10k and, as far as I know, 99% of older devices use single-ended design, they would match perfectly to Pre90 with 10k input.

I agree -- I think this point is getting lost in a lot of the discussions surrounding this preamp. Old tuners and phono stages aren't balanced and should be fine with the 10k single-ended input impedance.

 

[gvl]

I agree -- I think this point is getting lost in a lot of the discussions surrounding this preamp. Old tuners and phono stages aren't balanced and should be fine with the 10k single-ended input impedance.

$850 for a two RCA input preamp is a bit steep and takes too much space. IMO this product is a fail from the cost, input impedance, and the input variety perspectives.

 

[Vini darko]

The gauntlet is thrown. What you got high end?
Looking forward to the amps that accompany this pre amp.

 

[misterdog]

I feel that we are in a race to the bottom

Though in your https://vintagetechnics.audio/ the best performing amp (SU8099) has 102 dB S/N and THD of 0.007%.
That amp cost $ 1000 in 1979.

https://vintagetechnics.audio/showi...pOjE7czoyMToiaW50ZWdyYXRlZF9hbXBsaWZpZXJzIjt9

That was a lot of money then.

 

[Peib]

Hello
How do I know if i need a preamp? Do I need it if I use dac + headphones and speakers with an integrated amplifier?

 

[ElNino]

$850 for a two RCA input preamp is a bit steep and takes too much space. IMO this product is a fail from the cost, input impedance, and the input variety perspectives.

I agree that it is a weird combination of features, particularly with the input extender. Had the input extender been a multi-channel extender instead (so you could transform it from a 2 channel to 4 or 6 channel preamp) it would be more of a unique product.

 

[nobody]

With proper cable you can use balanced inputs as unbalanced. Only disadvantage will be low input impedance with Pre90.

 

[misterdog]

Douglas Self has said that balanced connections are rarely necessary in a domestic environment - he has also pointed out that balanced connections are inherently noisier* than unbalanced connections, and require a lot more silicon to even match the noise specs of an unbalanced input (let alone better it).

Though I could list 10 of the best designers of today who would argue the complete opposite.
Including the former chief engineer of Philips, Bruno Putzeys.

Douglas Self probably also believes that hand soldered, through hole components are the pinnacle of audio engineering.

In the 1970's we landed men on the moon using computers of that age, though not many would argue that we should still use such.

 

[Cujobob]

A lot of people are missing the point that this is a reference level product. Asking them to worsen their performance so that it’s more flexible with poorly designed products isn’t fair. Use this preamp with a modern high end amplifier and DAC for state of the art sound. That’s it’s use case and what it was designed around. I get that people have devices they’d like to use with it, but in order to do so it makes this product worse in performance and cost. I don’t see that making sense at this level.

I’m picking one up because I was actually in the market for a stereo preamp, nearly went for tubes, but I’ll try this first and check back.

 

[gvl]

I’m picking one up because I was actually in the market for a stereo preamp, nearly went for tubes, but I’ll try this first and check back.

Why do you need a preamp?

 

[Deleted member 19195]

Does it have tone controls? Bluetooth?

I don't understand the market for this product.

I also don't understand the giddyness over the measurements. Good measurements of a component that has little effect on sound quality. Big deal. It's a preamp. It's transparent.

 

[Deleted member 19195]

A lot of people are missing the point that this is a reference level product. Asking them to worsen their performance so that it’s more flexible with poorly designed products isn’t fair. Use this preamp with a modern high end amplifier and DAC for state of the art sound. That’s it’s use case and what it was designed around. I get that people have devices they’d like to use with it, but in order to do so it makes this product worse in performance and cost. I don’t see that making sense at this level.

I’m picking one up because I was actually in the market for a stereo preamp, nearly went for tubes, but I’ll try this first and check back.

State of the art sound? what are you talking about? It's a preamp.

 

[pma]

A lot of people are missing the point that this is a reference level product. Asking them to worsen their performance so that it’s more flexible with poorly designed products isn’t fair. Use this preamp with a modern high end amplifier and DAC for state of the art sound. That’s it’s use case and what it was designed around. I get that people have devices they’d like to use with it, but in order to do so it makes this product worse in performance and cost. I don’t see that making sense at this level.

I’m picking one up because I was actually in the market for a stereo preamp, nearly went for tubes, but I’ll try this first and check back.

Means what, the “reference product”? Who is asking them to “worsen their performance”? Excellent S/N does not need low input impedance. It is the output impedance of the preceding component that will affect the noise. Will you hear a difference if THD is -120 or -100dB? Will you hear THD of -80 dB on any kind of music sample? If you think so, then start with my 5% distortion test and post your ABX result.

 

[YSC]

Does it have tone controls? Bluetooth?

I don't understand the market for this product.

I also don't understand the giddyness over the measurements. Good measurements of a component that has little effect on sound quality. Big deal. It's a preamp. It's transparent.

Sorry I wanna go car analogy again, to me no objection this is one of the best if not the best SINAD wise preamp with perfect channel balance at all volume levels and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

But it is going from beyond to way beyond our hearing threshold, and the impedance scarification is like making the preamp going from truely shine with ALL potential sources to shine with limitation, it's like say a standard Ferrari which is the fastest car with air conditioning and stereo and luxury seats etc. and the performance ver. of it which throw away all your electric windows, air condition, sat nav etc. just to go around the lap 2 sec quicker and go 0-100kph 0.1 sec faster. It surely makes the whole thing STOA in that respect but making it less versatile might be a hindering factor for some ppl, especially with someone who buy the extension where likely when you use half a dozen of sources it would likely have one or more being limited by the non standard impedance.

 

[Vasr]

Looks like an unintended consequence of chasing SINAD. A high SINAD (albeit Frankensteinian) solution looking for a problem.

ASR might be encouraging a new type of life-style product - a high SINAD lifestyle with compromises on form and/or function. Audibility optional.

Perhaps ASR should go the Betty Crocker Seal of Approval route and franchise a label

"ASR approved. Designed by engineers for engineers"

 

[Universal Cereal Bus]

Sorry I wanna go car analogy again, to me no objection this is one of the best if not the best SINAD wise preamp with perfect channel balance at all volume levels and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

But it is going from beyond to way beyond our hearing threshold, and the impedance scarification is like making the preamp going from truely shine with ALL potential sources to shine with limitation, it's like say a standard Ferrari which is the fastest car with air conditioning and stereo and luxury seats etc. and the performance ver. of it which throw away all your electric windows, air condition, sat nav etc. just to go around the lap 2 sec quicker and go 0-100kph 0.1 sec faster. It surely makes the whole thing STOA in that respect but making it less versatile might be a hindering factor for some ppl, especially with someone who buy the extension where likely when you use half a dozen of sources it would likely have one or more being limited by the non standard impedance.

I strongly feel that all car analogies on ASR need the caveat that the analogized cars are limited to road-legal speeds (because legal speed is analogized to audibility). Therefore, in such analogies, you're evaluating cars (and electronics, by extension) on their looks, on-paper bragging rights, and "daily driver" conveniences.

If the pre90 is a Ferrari based on paper numbers and lack of conveniences, that's fine--there's a place in the world for Ferraris.

 

[CtheArgie]

So, this s why I “might” need this. I have an old Revox B77 that I want to start using again. I also have a VPI turntable that for also sentimental reasons I want to use it again. My DAC is an RME without ADC, the non pro version. I may connect the Revox and VPI to this and have a transparent pre. Is there anything wrong with my logic? (Obviously, I’ll add a phono pre)

 

[Vasr]

In 2021, a pre-amp ain't a required pre-amp IMO unless it has at the minimum:

1. Phono, minimum two analog and two digital inputs with proper impedance that will make it work with just about anything.
2. A remote for switching, volume, mute. Previous volume memory per input.
3. A trigger out.
4. A cross-over with selectable crossover point for Mains+2 sub-outs and delay setting between speakers.
5. A HT by-pass
6. A 2.2 digital loop out/in for an external processor (e.g., room correction)
7. Channel balance setting
8. Sufficient output gain to match with any amplifier.

A price target of <$1000 for the above with 90+ SINAD.

Everything else is just a toy or a very niche product.

 

[nobody]

....

Everything else is just a toy or a very niche product.

Most of the devices tested on this site are very niche products... 99% of population is satisfied with sound from phone, or TV... Some buy soundbar, few will get home theater set and only very small amount of people gets into dedicated DACs, headphone amps, separate preamps, monoblock amplifiers and so on...

 

[dtaylo1066]

It is interesting that the Chinese brands are moving into higher-fi or the traditional audiophile space. That will intensify competition for sure. It is amazing what $500 today can buy you in any audio component today, which is made even more dramatic as the middle man (distributor or retailer) has often been taken out of the sales chain. I can recall the first DACs being priced in the thousands. A $200 DAC today would blow them away. This is all great for the price to performance ratio for the consumer, but of course lends itself to the questions of local business job losses, the future of brick and mortar businesses, etc. Regarless of one's opinion on those issues, today's marketplace is a bonanza for audiophiles and/or music lovers. You can get a $1,000 system that can deliver some very captivating music, as so well documented in these pages.