Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)

[nsfgp]

Since we are going further into this "investigation" ... I want to quote more info from another forum member from the DX3Pro+ thread.

Topping DX3 Pro+ Review (DAC & Headphone Amp)

if you choose method 2) it's extremely safe and there will be no disadvantage. it's called "impedance balanced" and many professional audio equipments are wired this way. it has all the nice properties balanced output has, such as common mode noise rejection, ground loop elimination, etc. See...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Is what he described for Topping Balanced DAC's output signal confirmed and widely known?? (ie. The Hot and Cold legs of each channel is NOT an identical/inverted signal but whatever is coming out from the DAC chip directly without summation/inversion)

Guess you know my next question: If above is indeed true -> What will happen when you feed such Balanced output from a Topping Balanced DAC into a Topping PA5??

 

[antcollinet]

Since we are going further into this "investigation" ... I want to quote more info from another forum member from the DX3Pro+ thread.

Topping DX3 Pro+ Review (DAC & Headphone Amp)

if you choose method 2) it's extremely safe and there will be no disadvantage. it's called "impedance balanced" and many professional audio equipments are wired this way. it has all the nice properties balanced output has, such as common mode noise rejection, ground loop elimination, etc. See...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Is what he described for Topping Balanced DAC's output signal confirmed and widely known?? (ie. The Hot and Cold legs of each channel is NOT an identical/inverted signal but whatever is coming out from the DAC chip directly without summation/inversion)

Guess you know my next question: If above is indeed true -> What will happen when you feed such Balanced output from a Topping Balanced DAC into a Topping PA5??

id be surprised if that technique was common. Certainly if I bought something that operated like that I’d send it back ”not as described”

 

[Deleted member 46664]

Since we are going further into this "investigation" ... I want to quote more info from another forum member from the DX3Pro+ thread.

Topping DX3 Pro+ Review (DAC & Headphone Amp)

if you choose method 2) it's extremely safe and there will be no disadvantage. it's called "impedance balanced" and many professional audio equipments are wired this way. it has all the nice properties balanced output has, such as common mode noise rejection, ground loop elimination, etc. See...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Is what he described for Topping Balanced DAC's output signal confirmed and widely known?? (ie. The Hot and Cold legs of each channel is NOT an identical/inverted signal but whatever is coming out from the DAC chip directly without summation/inversion)

Guess you know my next question: If above is indeed true -> What will happen when you feed such Balanced output from a Topping Balanced DAC into a Topping PA5??

Inequalities between the hot and cold waveform are a serious problem... and it's not Balanced Audio.
Topping to Topping ... because they share similar topologies, I'd bet it works fine.
Try Topping to a pro-audio amp with proper discriminators on the inputs and the result could be VERY different.

 

[Deleted member 46664]

id be surprised if that technique was common. Certainly if I bought something that operated like that I’d send it back ”not as described”

Actually it is more common than you might realize ... it's called the "dead pin" trick.

 

[wlgreg]

Update on static issue. I emailed Topping, and here is their reply.

Hi,

This problem has also attracted our attention, we are now looking for the cause and will strive to solve it as soon as possible.

Best Regards

 

[antcollinet]

Update on static issue. I emailed Topping, and here is their reply.

Hi,

This problem has also attracted our attention, we are now looking for the cause and will strive to solve it as soon as possible.

Best Regards

Sounds like they should be requesting return of all affected units with free replacement (return shipping paid by topping), so they have failed units which they can investigate.

 

[JohnnyNG]

Kind of concerned about these failure reports! Luckily I've had no issues with mine. Been running it with a Pre90 for about 2.5 months and have been extremely happy with it. Mine barely gets above ambient temp. even after a few hours powering my Revel M106. Knock on wood...

 

[Nzama]

Just to keep the documentation of the issue on... Here the issue on mine... Actually starts being worse /hearing it better after I switched down the DAC (e50)... but also as noise during music reproduction. Topping asusming is faulty and Audiophonics proposing to return it (shout out to Audiophonics support, very reactive!)

- what is size limit? i cannot share video

 

[Nzama]

Just to keep the documentation of the issue on... Here the issue on mine... Actually starts being worse /hearing it better after I switched down the DAC (e50)... but also as noise during music reproduction. Topping asusming is faulty and Audiophonics proposing to return it (shout out to Audiophonics support, very reactive!)

- what is size limit? i cannot share video

here you go with the zipped video

 

[Rottmannash]

I bought a PA5 from Apos and hooked it up w/ the D10 Balanced then driving Revel F208's which is a bit silly but wanted to compare to the Purifi. The PA5 sounded very similar at medium volumes to the Purifi but couldn't come close to the Purifi when the volume was turned up to moderately high levels. Did turn the PA5 up to full volume for just a few seconds and noted a bit of distortion. The lack of booming bass from the PA5 at elevated listening levels is the only thing lacking vs the Purifi in my very quick assessment. Pretty neat little amp all in all. Great job Topping.

 

[REK2575]

Pretty neat little amp all in all. Great job Topping.

I think what this thread is showing is that assessment may be premature. The reliability / incidence of unit failure issues for the PA5 are real. I agree with 'great job' in the abstract. The results of Amir's review are really impressive. My own experience with a PA5 the past 2 weeks has been positive -- it sounds terrific. But I'm also seriously considering returning it while my refund window is still open, possibly replacing with a PA3s, which doesn't seem to be suffering from the same problems.

I'm not sure what all this fantastic performance is worth if your amp becomes unusable after a month...

 

[pma]

Amir's test tell nothing about reliability and unfortunately the evaluation by SINAD chart numbers may be quite short-eyed. I know it s difficult to provide tests that would tell the consumer something about real value of the product, however if the tests were more stress oriented, like longer term test at higher power, complex loads etc. it might prevent some disappointment, even at the price of possible component damage. If the test is provided on a component sent by a manufacturer, it should be a rule of thumb to perform some kind of a stress test. If the component is sent by a user/owner, it is a different situation. So the two categories of tests should be performed. Manufacturers should accept this method, because the ASR review is a kind of advertisement. Unpaid advertisement that might be balanced by a component loss in case of technical issues.

 

[ModDIY]

I think what this thread is showing is that assessment may be premature. The reliability / incidence of unit failure issues for the PA5 are real. I agree with 'great job' in the abstract. The results of Amir's review are really impressive. My own experience with a PA5 the past 2 weeks has been positive -- it sounds terrific. But I'm also seriously considering returning it while my refund window is still open, possibly replacing with a PA3s, which doesn't seem to be suffering from the same problems.

I'm not sure what all this fantastic performance is worth if your amp becomes unusable after a month...

As I wrote yesterday on the other wire of the PA5, my friend has the Topping PA3s (not the PA3 because not the same amp chips), in short, he plugged into medium efficiency speakers of 88db, I know these musical tastes, rock progressive, he listens at a fairly good volume and is completely satisfied.

And this in front of two much more powerful amps that he owns. In addition the PA3s has 2 inputs, one balanced (TRS) and the other not (RCA). Either way the price is less than half of the PA5.

 

[brandonhall]

Regarding the noisy left channel problem, here's my interaction with Topping support edited for clarity:

Me:

I’ve had the PA5 since March 23rd. It was going along well until the left channel started making noise. It’s obvious from my seated position around 1 meter away. The right channel is dead silent. I swapped out cables, ran a different AMP to rule out the DAC, and the problem persists. A restart of the amp fixed the issue briefly and then it returned. Unplugging the DAC makes no difference either. I also tried a different speaker and heard the same issue. It’s busted.

Topping:

Dear Brandon

Thank you for contacting TOPPING support. We are happy to assist.

Your unit may be faulty. Could you please provide the serial number (on the side of the unit/ the box) and the proof of purchase for us? Thanks.

Me:

Here’s the proof of purchase: XXX

I sent these two items and the Topping E50 (proof of purchase: XXX) back today. I was on the last day of my return window and didn’t want to be stuck with a faulty unit. I would have considered returning and then ordering the Topping PA5 again, but they are out of stock until May 31st.

Is this a known issue with the PA5? Is the problem solved in newer production runs?

Topping:

We are aware of this problem and are looking for the cause and solution.

Now this problem has not been solved for the time being, maybe it is a good choice to return the PA5 for a refund.

TLDR; Good response time from Topping. They acknowledge there is a problem and they don't have a solution yet.

 

[Talisman]

I love the Topping products, which I discovered thanks to the excellent reviews here on ASR, I bought two Topping E30 and a Topping DX3pro +, the E 30 after some time showed the known problems on the forum, the first dx3pro + came back the next day for obvious problems and I got a working second unit which (at the moment) is doing fine (but many talk about a very delicate display where lines go out).
This pa5 seemed to be the holy grail of low-cost quality amplification, but it too, after some time, is showing obvious problems.
Perhaps you need to stop and think for a moment, the desperate race for measured performance is fine as long as product reliability is guaranteed. An amplifier with this stellar performance at only 350 euros is fantastic, but if it breaks after a month it's not a big deal. It would be much better to pay it 500 but with greater care in quality and reliability.
There are amps out there that don't measure quite as well but have served their owners flawlessly for thirty years, or by staying in the low-cost class D, I have a Breeze mini dual tpa 3116 that's been running continuously for over two years without the slightest bit. sign of failure, it will not measure as well as the PA5 but I can count on him.
When the difference in performance is so small and hardly noticeable, the reliability of a product becomes a much greater added value.
With great regret but I will take a break from buying Topping products by evaluating how the company will move in the future

 

[Toku]

It's been 5 months since I bought my PA5 immediately after its release. I use it every day until today, but I haven't experienced any of the reported abnormalities. The power supply has remained almost ON since I purchased it. My PA5 serial No is 2110 *****.
From the recorded information reported, I suspect that parts such as OP amplifiers and capacitors are defective. Probably it occurs only in a specific production lot.

 

[Rottmannash]

"as long as product reliability is guaranteed"

Nothing in life is guaranteed, particularly in the audio/electronics realm. One purchases and hopes for a long-lasting and well-performing device. I'll take my chances with Topping-I have 4 of their DAC's and the PA5 and none of them have issues/problems.

 

[Talisman]

"as long as product reliability is guaranteed"

Nothing in life is guaranteed, particularly in the audio/electronics realm. One purchases and hopes for a long-lasting and well-performing device. I'll take my chances with Topping-I have 4 of their DAC's and the PA5 and none of them have issues/problems.

This is a cliché, and it is not even an objective reality, many electronics manufacturers demonstrate a great reliability of their products, not necessarily expensive brands, I think denon, Cambridge audio, nad, they have a failure rate of their units extremely low, and most of all the defects of their products generally involve a single unit failing for some reason, not an entire design problem or an entire batch involving hundreds / thousands of units.
Good for you that you've never had any problems with Topping, but countless others, myself included, can't say the same.

 

[IPunchCholla]

This is a cliché, and it is not even an objective reality, many electronics manufacturers demonstrate a great reliability of their products, not necessarily expensive brands, I think denon, Cambridge audio, nad, they have a failure rate of their units extremely low, and most of all the defects of their products generally involve a single unit failing for some reason, not an entire design problem or an entire batch involving hundreds / thousands of units.
Good for you that you've never had any problems with Topping, but countless others, myself included, can't say the same.

Do you have figures for failure rates? While there are undoubtedly issues with the PA5, a quick search shows pages of issues with Cambridge Audio ( I own both). There appears to be more failures with Topping, but since I don’t know the number of units sold by either, I have no idea of relative rates.

 

[Talisman]

Do you have figures for failure rates? While there are undoubtedly issues with the PA5, a quick search shows pages of issues with Cambridge Audio ( I own both). There appears to be more failures with Topping, but since I don’t know the number of units sold by either, I have no idea of relative rates.

Actually no, you're right, attending audio forums at various latitudes I got this idea, perhaps wrong. But on the fallibility of Topping products we have unfortunately many documented cases on the forum, and I say this as an owner (in many ways satisfied) of their products, it seems that on many new releases, after a few months / week some problems arise. It seems clear to me that the testing phase is in many cases up to the first end users, and perhaps it is the price to pay for such a high level of performance in low cost products.
However, if there is one thing that ASR has taught me well, it is that MANY Times of metrically inferior performances are absolutely inaudible, and therefore at this moment I prefer to have the serenity of a less performing but more reliable product. I don't feel like being a beta tester anymore.