Oops, thank you, I thought, that you only lowered the output level of your preamp, but the volume knob of the PA5 was fixed at max. level by that measurement.
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Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
I think your 6º at 20khz requirement is way too restrictive! Here's PA5 frequency/phase response (phase in blue, lower trace):
EDIT: manually adjusted time delay
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Exactly that what I'm looking for. Thank you.
OK, I am not the one that likes to talk small about something just to cause discussion, but, I just received my PA5 and I listen to it, and compare it to other amps, and here are my impressions:
1) The unit is definitely underpowered for my use, unfortunately. My room is not too big and my speakers are not super sensitive but they are not crazy (8 ohms, 87db sensitivity). Any music with a deep base passage it struggles, like A LOT, to represent the bass properly and I honestly think it is a fact of power alone. Example: Angel, by Sarah McLachlan, the lower notes in the piano are very "dead" and muted. Another example: Space Lion by Seatbelts (Cowboy Bebop soundtrack).
2) It is definitely dead silent. It is scary, when the music is on mute it almost feels like it is not on at all.
3) Looks like this unit was definitely designed for near field listening and more sensitive speakers. In that sense, it is a very nice unit.
The problem for me was comparing to other stuff, let me go one by one:
1) Compare to my Purifi 1ET400A EVAL1 kit: Not even close. The Purifi sounds miles better, the bass is more powerful and more defined. The mids and highs are more clear and soundstage is more open. Anyone saying that this amp competes with the Purifi doesn't know what they are talking about, sorry
2) Compare to my DIY JLE SYLPH-D200 with a Mean Well LRS-350-48 PSU: Also, not even close. The JLE sounds so much better than the PA5, specially on the bass region. It makes the PA5 sounds more "compressed" (maybe because the power on the PA5 just cannot articulate bass notes as good and it gives you that "squeezy" sound impression).
3) Worse offender: compare to my Aiyima 07 (stock, no opamp mods or PSU mods, using the stock 32V PSU): The Aiyima sounds better, unfortunately... It is not as silent for sure, but, the difference in the articulation on the bass to mid region is very obvious. I honestly would trade the perfect SNR and zero noise of the PA5 to the more vivid bass sound on the Aiyima any day. Very sad this one
So, conclusion (sad one):
It is a nice unit and it is a crazy technology achievement for class D amps, for sure. But anyone that is worried about the power on unit, your are right to be worried. All "issues" I feel are obvious side effects of how low gain the unit is (and this is just obviously to achieve the crazy good measurement numbers). But unless you are using it as a near field on very sensitive speakers, I am not happy with it, unfortunately...
If anyone else enjoy the amp, I am not saying you are wrong. It is just my own experience with it. And I like the amp, I just wished it was at least 2-3x more powerful...
1) The unit is definitely underpowered for my use, unfortunately. My room is not too big and my speakers are not super sensitive but they are not crazy (8 ohms, 87db sensitivity). Any music with a deep base passage it struggles, like A LOT, to represent the bass properly and I honestly think it is a fact of power alone. Example: Angel, by Sarah McLachlan, the lower notes in the piano are very "dead" and muted. Another example: Space Lion by Seatbelts (Cowboy Bebop soundtrack).
2) It is definitely dead silent. It is scary, when the music is on mute it almost feels like it is not on at all.
3) Looks like this unit was definitely designed for near field listening and more sensitive speakers. In that sense, it is a very nice unit.
The problem for me was comparing to other stuff, let me go one by one:
1) Compare to my Purifi 1ET400A EVAL1 kit: Not even close. The Purifi sounds miles better, the bass is more powerful and more defined. The mids and highs are more clear and soundstage is more open. Anyone saying that this amp competes with the Purifi doesn't know what they are talking about, sorry
2) Compare to my DIY JLE SYLPH-D200 with a Mean Well LRS-350-48 PSU: Also, not even close. The JLE sounds so much better than the PA5, specially on the bass region. It makes the PA5 sounds more "compressed" (maybe because the power on the PA5 just cannot articulate bass notes as good and it gives you that "squeezy" sound impression).
3) Worse offender: compare to my Aiyima 07 (stock, no opamp mods or PSU mods, using the stock 32V PSU): The Aiyima sounds better, unfortunately... It is not as silent for sure, but, the difference in the articulation on the bass to mid region is very obvious. I honestly would trade the perfect SNR and zero noise of the PA5 to the more vivid bass sound on the Aiyima any day. Very sad this one
So, conclusion (sad one):
It is a nice unit and it is a crazy technology achievement for class D amps, for sure. But anyone that is worried about the power on unit, your are right to be worried. All "issues" I feel are obvious side effects of how low gain the unit is (and this is just obviously to achieve the crazy good measurement numbers). But unless you are using it as a near field on very sensitive speakers, I am not happy with it, unfortunately...
If anyone else enjoy the amp, I am not saying you are wrong. It is just my own experience with it. And I like the amp, I just wished it was at least 2-3x more powerful...
What speakers are you using? What is the actual size of your room? I’m somewhat frustrated when people give their subjective opinions and then proceed to leave out useful information.OK, I am not the one that likes to talk small about something just to cause discussion, but, I just received my PA5 and I listen to it, and compare it to other amps, and here are my impressions:
1) The unit is definitely underpowered for my use, unfortunately. My room is not too big and my speakers are not super sensitive but they are not crazy (8 ohms, 87db sensitivity). Any music with a deep base passage it struggles, like A LOT, to represent the bass properly and I honestly think it is a fact of power alone. Example: Angel, by Sarah McLachlan, the lower notes in the piano are very "dead" and muted. Another example: Space Lion by Seatbelts (Cowboy Bebop soundtrack).
2) It is definitely dead silent. It is scary, when the music is on mute it almost feels like it is not on at all.
3) Looks like this unit was definitely designed for near field listening and more sensitive speakers. In that sense, it is a very nice unit.
The problem for me was comparing to other stuff, let me go one by one:
1) Compare to my Purifi 1ET400A EVAL1 kit: Not even close. The Purifi sounds miles better, the bass is more powerful and more defined. The mids and highs are more clear and soundstage is more open. Anyone saying that this amp competes with the Purifi doesn't know what they are talking about, sorry
2) Compare to my DIY JLE SYLPH-D200 with a Mean Well LRS-350-48 PSU: Also, not even close. The JLE sounds so much better than the PA5, specially on the bass region. It makes the PA5 sounds more "compressed" (maybe because the power on the PA5 just cannot articulate bass notes as good and it gives you that "squeezy" sound impression).
3) Worse offender: compare to my Aiyima 07 (stock, no opamp mods or PSU mods, using the stock 32V PSU): The Aiyima sounds better, unfortunately... It is not as silent for sure, but, the difference in the articulation on the bass to mid region is very obvious. I honestly would trade the perfect SNR and zero noise of the PA5 to the more vivid bass sound on the Aiyima any day. Very sad this one
So, conclusion (sad one):
It is a nice unit and it is a crazy technology achievement for class D amps, for sure. But anyone that is worried about the power on unit, your are right to be worried. All "issues" I feel are obvious side effects of how low gain the unit is (and this is just obviously to achieve the crazy good measurement numbers). But unless you are using it as a near field on very sensitive speakers, I am not happy with it, unfortunately...
If anyone else enjoy the amp, I am not saying you are wrong. It is just my own experience with it. And I like the amp, I just wished it was at least 2-3x more powerful...
I have GR Research X-LS Encore speakers, but I also tested on a couple of budget ones: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Andrew Jones, Sony SSCS5, JBL Stage A130 and Jamo S 803.
My room is not ideal, about 131 inches X 131 inches (3.3m x 3.3m) with one wall missing on the right side that goes to a corridor.
I don't like to give subjective opinions as well, but I don't have fancy measurement tools unfortunately so it is all I can help with, sorry.
somebodyelse
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What did you do for level matching?
I have two simple DB meters, one A weighted and another C weighted. I check both at the same time on white and pink noise.
maty
Major Contributor
You are my hero!
Is the phase plot correct? FR is flat up to 10kHz and there is a -50° phase at 10kHz? -16° at 1kHz? Isn't there some delay (in the meas. setup)?
maty
Major Contributor
Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)
What Amir mentions in the video I linked to is the "phase soup" that takes place in a normal listening room, due to all the reflections in the listening room. … That would indicate that one (like Amir) cannot effectively measure phase in a room then. But if one measured it in free space then...
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AIYIMA A07 (TPA3255) - Phase
maty
Major Contributor
MEASUREMENTS: Hypex nCore NC252MP Amplifier (+ Subjective opinions around objective testing, and CES2020)
A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.
archimago.blogspot.com
Unfortunately your experience seems to contradict others I have read, and that's exactly why I ASR doesn't like subjective reports. It's weird how this thread seems to be asking for them now.
I wrote this to maty more than 2 years ago but apparently he is still not convinced....
Phase shift
Ok, Please do a write up for us ( no Google copy/paste) about absolute phase, minimum phase, excess phase and group delay.... But...take your time...no rush.
www.audiosciencereview.com
MEASUREMENTS: Hypex nCore NC252MP Amplifier (+ Subjective opinions around objective testing, and CES2020)
A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.
View attachment 175637
This quite same as what I get from NC252MP. -20°/30kHz.
I wrote this to maty more than 2 years ago but apparently he is still not convinced....
Phase shift
Ok, Please do a write up for us ( no Google copy/paste) about absolute phase, minimum phase, excess phase and group delay.... But...take your time...no rush.
Yes it is not sometimes trivial to make a correct measurement, even if it may seem simple. Trial/error sequence is the best way to learn - forever.
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