Topping E70 randomly went to MAX volume..

[Roland68]

I use the E 70 since month’s in preamp mode. Is still running flawless.

And that's exactly the problem. It's not about the DAC still working properly, it has nothing to do with that.
There are thousands of DACs in the world that use the DSP function in the DAC chip to reduce the volume and normally it shouldn't be a problem.
But it's like a gun loaded and cocked. You remember that scene in Pulp Fiction? Exactly like that!

If the registers in the DSP of the DAC chip are reset to the basic setting by some accident, then you have a volume of 0 dB = full throttle.
And after that, the DAC will continue to work as before, no difference.

 

[Sokel]

These kinds of problems is hard to discover as the users understand that such a failure would reduce future sale value of speakers,etc.
Only some brave ones report them and we should be oblige to them.

 

[soerenssen]

Instead of a combined DAC/Pre-amp device and not having a volume knob on my power amp (NCx500 with 300W 113.5dB SPL speakers), only gain jumpers on the bottom, would it be safer to go with a separate DAC and pre-amp? Example: E50 + Pre90. I am planning to use a Mac Mini for DSP (DIrac) with Audirvana for streaming and in parallel connect my Wiim Pro too. I'll have digital sources only. Future plan is to add a second cheap DAC for my sub for 2.1 Dirac.

 

[Sokel]

Instead of a combined DAC/Pre-amp device and not having a volume knob on my power amp (NCx500 with 300W 113.5dB SPL speakers), only gain jumpers on the bottom, would it be safer to go with a separate DAC and pre-amp? Example: E50 + Pre90. I am planning to use a Mac Mini for DSP (DIrac) with Audirvana for streaming and in parallel connect my Wiim Pro too. I'll have digital sources only. Future plan is to add a second cheap DAC for my sub for 2.1 Dirac.

Sounds safer.Only have a look at gain,and input/output impedance,sometimes the relationship is not enough.
(don't have a clue about NCx500,E50 and pre90 I/O impedance)

 

[BR52]

And that's exactly the problem. It's not about the DAC still working properly, it has nothing to do with that.
There are thousands of DACs in the world that use the DSP function in the DAC chip to reduce the volume and normally it shouldn't be a problem.
But it's like a gun loaded and cocked. You remember that scene in Pulp Fiction? Exactly like that!

If the registers in the DSP of the DAC chip are reset to the basic setting by some accident, then you have a volume of 0 dB = full throttle.
And after that, the DAC will continue to work as before, no difference.

What’s the problem of all sw controlled chips including “special” chips someone before was saying it’s better. But any how it’s hard to say something positive to this topic here it’s seems like religion. It’s in technology all ways how things are implemented. You drive car with software controlled throttle and mostly it works sometimes not (a video of a E car was shortly in internet). So we should not project from one implementation to all other’s.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

You can think of something like this as a safety device: Nobsound Mini Fully-Balanced/Single-Ended Passive Preamp

 

[Sokel]

You can think of something like this as a safety device: Nobsound Mini Fully-Balanced/Single-Ended Passive Preamp

It's not as described:

Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

@dOSs - Congratulations on your new D90, it's a great DAC to drive downstream amps - headphone, integrated, direct power ed speakers, or passive speakers with an AMP driven by the D90. The D90 even has a convenient remote control. AFAIK there is no "safe" volume except by turning down the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Edit:Now it is,they changed the description about the good ALPS 27.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

It's not as described:

Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

@dOSs - Congratulations on your new D90, it's a great DAC to drive downstream amps - headphone, integrated, direct power ed speakers, or passive speakers with an AMP driven by the D90. The D90 even has a convenient remote control. AFAIK there is no "safe" volume except by turning down the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I read that too. But in the description it says they use the Alps 09. It may have been altered since the review..

 

[BR52]

What’s the problem of all sw controlled chips including “special” chips someone before was saying it’s better. But any how it’s hard to say something positive to this topic here it’s seems like religion. It’s in technology all ways how things are implemented. You drive car with software controlled throttle and mostly it works sometimes not (a video of a E car was shortly in internet). So we should not project from one implementation to all other’s.

And before I forget: volume is also IR controlled if someone sitting on the remote… or some other IR transmission occurs it can have the same result.

 

[Sokel]

I read that too. But in the description it says they use the Alps 09. It may have been altered since the review..

This one seems way better:

Little Bear MC3 XLR & RCA Switch Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the One Little Bear (Nobsound/Duok) Little Bear MC3 XLR and RCA switcher. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $69.99. I like the large knobs although I wished they had aligned them better. As you see, you can switch between one RCA and two...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Sokel]

This one seems way better:

Little Bear MC3 XLR & RCA Switch Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the One Little Bear (Nobsound/Duok) Little Bear MC3 XLR and RCA switcher. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $69.99. I like the large knobs although I wished they had aligned them better. As you see, you can switch between one RCA and two...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Edit:
No VC,it's not my day today.

 

[BR52]

This one seems way better:

Little Bear MC3 XLR & RCA Switch Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the One Little Bear (Nobsound/Duok) Little Bear MC3 XLR and RCA switcher. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $69.99. I like the large knobs although I wished they had aligned them better. As you see, you can switch between one RCA and two...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Back to the roots. Hopefully the channels are synchronized and the crosstalk is not measurable.

 

[soerenssen]

You can think of something like this as a safety device: Nobsound Mini Fully-Balanced/Single-Ended Passive Preamp

How does it work as a safety device? (compared to a Pre90 with the safe volume feature)

 

[Roland68]

What’s the problem of all sw controlled chips including “special” chips someone before was saying it’s better. But any how it’s hard to say something positive to this topic here it’s seems like religion. It’s in technology all ways how things are implemented. You drive car with software controlled throttle and mostly it works sometimes not (a video of a E car was shortly in internet). So we should not project from one implementation to all other’s.

And before I forget: volume is also IR controlled if someone sitting on the remote… or some other IR transmission occurs it can have the same result.

With these threads and this particular issue, it's like talking to a brick wall.
It's not about a design flaw, it's not about human error, and certainly not about any other type of volume control. Upstream digital or DSP-based volume controls also have nothing to do with this problem.
I also don't understand what you mean by "special" chips.

- A DAC chip always has the task of converting the digital data into analog.
- It does this without any intervention or modification of the digital data.
- This means that the data is always with a volume of 0 dB
be converted and issued. So in original volume!
That, and only that, is the initial state of any normal DAC chip.

If you then use the DSP function of the DAC chip to reduce the volume digitally before conversion, what happens if the chip is set to its initial state by something?
Exactly, 0dB volume.

Of course you can avoid the problem with hardware and software, but the necessary components would also have to be on the circuit board.
If a manufacturer uses this DSP function in the DAC chip for volume reduction (and again, it's not a volume control), you have to be aware of a potential problem.

 

[BR52]

With these threads and this particular issue, it's like talking to a brick wall.
It's not about a design flaw, it's not about human error, and certainly not about any other type of volume control. Upstream digital or DSP-based volume controls also have nothing to do with this problem.
I also don't understand what you mean by "special" chips.

- A DAC chip always has the task of converting the digital data into analog.
- It does this without any intervention or modification of the digital data.
- This means that the data is always with a volume of 0 dB
be converted and issued. So in original volume!
That, and only that, is the initial state of any normal DAC chip.

If you then use the DSP function of the DAC chip to reduce the volume digitally before conversion, what happens if the chip is set to its initial state by something?
Exactly, 0dB volume.

Of course you can avoid the problem with hardware and software, but the necessary components would also have to be on the circuit board.
If a manufacturer uses this DSP function in the DAC chip for volume reduction (and again, it's not a volume control), you have to be aware of a potential problem.

You are simplifying modern DACs too much because they are absolutely not working at power-up. They have a lot of registers, and after power-up, you have to declare, for example, the right output pins, whether they're running in more output or stereo mode, and so on. They have no basic functionality at power-up!Here's an example:
They are waiting for initialisation and you have to say that they have to do. You means the firmware designer.
Special chips means software controlled atentunuators.

 

[JeremyFife]

These questions and this issue comes up regularly.
Seems that the general case solution is to have a DAC at 0DbFS (full on) and to have a downstream volume control to limit that - and to check that it's turned down before you switch any power amps / speakers on!
No chance of any unexpected increase in volume from the DAC or digital sources in that scenario.

Easy enough to do with separate boxes.

Are there any recommended, not expensive (< 300-500 GBP), DACs that have that sort of separate volume control built in?
Not interested in the semantics of whether it's a pre-amp or not. Happy to consider a 'proper' pre-amp with a DAC in it as well as 'just a DAC' but with a properly implemented volume control.
How do you tell?

Thanks

 

[soerenssen]

Are there any recommended, not expensive (< 300-500 GBP), DACs that have that sort of separate volume control built in?
Not interested in the semantics of whether it's a pre-amp or not. Happy to consider a 'proper' pre-amp with a DAC in it as well as 'just a DAC' but with a properly implemented volume control.

+1
I'm also interested!

 

[Redwine]

Turn on the dac/pre first and turn down any volume before you turn on the power amp?

 

[Roland68]

You are simplifying modern DACs too much because they are absolutely not working at power-up. They have a lot of registers, and after power-up, you have to declare, for example, the right output pins, whether they're running in more output or stereo mode, and so on. They have no basic functionality at power-up!Here's an example:
They are waiting for initialisation and you have to say that they have to do. You means the firmware designer.
Special chips means software controlled atentunuators.

Now it's getting ridiculous, sorry if I say it so bluntly.
The ES9038PRO starts with default values that allow standard operation in the default configuration. In the event of a problem, the chip resets exactly to these default values.

Besides several boards from DIYINHK, there are many boards published on the DIY forums worldwide without i2c or optional i2c interface. And since I had several of these boards, I can also confirm the perfect function from my own experience.

I really have no idea why you spread such false information and especially unsettle the inexperienced users. But it is certainly not effective and absolutely questionable.
When looking at the data sheet, you should have noticed the term "Default", especially since this term appears with every register entry including the assigned value. It has been the case for a few decades that registers are assigned a default value and basic functionality is guaranteed, not only with DAC chips.

 

[BR52]

Now it's getting ridiculous, sorry if I say it so bluntly.
The ES9038PRO starts with default values that allow standard operation in the default configuration. In the event of a problem, the chip resets exactly to these default values.

Besides several boards from DIYINHK, there are many boards published on the DIY forums worldwide without i2c or optional i2c interface. And since I had several of these boards, I can also confirm the perfect function from my own experience.

I really have no idea why you spread such false information and especially unsettle the inexperienced users. But it is certainly not effective and absolutely questionable.
When looking at the data sheet, you should have noticed the term "Default", especially since this term appears with every register entry including the assigned value. It has been the case for a few decades that registers are assigned a default value and basic functionality is guaranteed, not only with DAC chips.

Hmm, nice tone here. I stop now and hope the default works for all applications.