Topping E30 II DAC Review

[HuubFranssen]

Wish you well, Amir!

 

[gvl]

Erm. Have you ever tried the optical out from a TV, a Samsung Smart TV for example? Now that the better AKM receivers are off the market at least for a while longer (if not forever), it's not just Toppings that will have a hard time locking onto signals that are plagued with jitter..

It’s not just TVs, there’s a convincing number of reports of issues with CD players.

 

[Veri]

There was literally no point for replacing the actual E30, unless to fix its flaws. They should focus on designing an actually working remote, or reliable products for what matters, that will be way more relevant to the final user than 1.5dB of extra SINAD.

Sigh. They are using the new AK4493SEQ that only appeared after they recovered from the factory fire. E30-ii = new circuit using two of those chips. Not just for 1.5dB SINAD They couldn't have just started building new "E30" models while changing the basis, right? The old AKM DAC chips used before are no longer available/sold.
See how Schiit Modius, RME ADI-2, ... came up with an ESS model while the chips were discontinued. Now they could use AKM again. Should they want to...

It’s not just TVs, there’s a convincing number of reports of issues with CD players.

Ah yes, fair point.

 

[Dmitri]

Haven’t you slept long enough?

Dude...It’s not even 8am there! ; )

 

[holbob]

If anyone thinks Topping has released this DAC so quickly after the last one because of QC issues in the E30 they are crazy. It's purely a marketing exercise, get as much out the door as possible to keep up with SMSL and the SMSL subsidiaries.

My E30 stopped outputting sound after less than a month. It also vibrated to the touch when switched on, was very worrying. Luckily I purchased it from Amazon UK, and they refunded me and I bought a Sanskrit from SMSL instead - though sold that when I discovered it didn't have direct input switching.

All I've heard about Topping is constant QC issues for other products since then. They can carry on updating their already technically excellent DAC'S and headphone amps every 3 months from now to eternity, with no new features like eq, and Amir can continue giving them glowing and golden reviews - I certainly won't be buying any. Their reputation is dwindling.

 

[SmackDaddies]

I guess Amir rush is justified by the fact that competition already released measurements?

really? I suspect he wanted to get something out for his readers here. It's not like he gets paid by ad revenue or sales

To suggest anything other than he wanted to help readers is disgusting

 

[Trell]

You can certainly expect whatever you want. And you can at least hope it will be the case. But if it doesn't, you're only out a few Supersized meals at Mickey Ds. Right?

Personally, I don't have time for this sort of 'let's scrape the bottom of the pricing barrel, and hope we can uncover a diamond in it', sort of thing. But every consumer ultimately makes his own choices about what he can spend, and what his expectation is.

A DAC with an expected life time of only one year is a very shoddy product indeed. You might not care but I do, for economic as well as environmental reasons. Then there is the hassle and time waste to buy a new one or send it in for warranty.

You obviously are far less price sensitive than most so this device is not for you. Perhaps a Chord DAVE is more to your liking? After all what is $14,000 but the price of a beaten up piece of junk car?

 

[Kevinfc]

I’d go with the SMSL D6 at this point. It uses the same 4493s chip and offers XLR and RCA outputs. The prices are similar as are the specs, so I’d prefer the D6’s versatility.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Expect many customers are ordering this kind of cheap DACs straight from China (AliExpress, Aoshida, Shenzen Audio etc). That way, you could forget about your "2 years EU warranty", if you have any issue, then, you're screwed.

My two cents: It is now pretty clear that Topping does not have any consideration for either QC or user's confort. There was literally no point for replacing the actual E30, unless to fix its flaws. They should focus on designing an actually working remote, or reliable products for what matters, that will be way more relevant to the final user than 1.5dB of extra SINAD.

Well. I have not replied to these issues. But i may just say something about this. We have been actively testing various devices running 24/7 to discover all the issues with any devices including but not just PA5, A90 Discrete, D90SE, DM7. On the QC, I'm pretty sure we are the most strict and most advanced at least in our "hifi" industry. Every board gets to be tested with AP once and the whole unit gets tested again before random inspection and listening tests.
We tried some improvement on the PA5 regarding the issue and we had 20 of those new units running for over a month now without any issue. But apparently we all know that the pop noise issue comes up randomly and only after a few months. It's a very touchy issue that we still cannot 100% pin point what the issue is. And also published else where we are extending the warranty for all of our amplifier line. If this doesn't show our care for our customers, I don't know what does. Does it really matter that much if I constantly replying to comments here? It's always recommended to get the unit from the nearest authorised distributor/seller so in case something happens one can get the best service. And I believe this is the best case scenario.
If you have any suggestions, please let me know. I'm really busy with all the new stuffs(actually new stuff). I can't spend too much time on the forum like before. I do casually look for issues people reported.
And thank you for speaking out.

 

[respice finem]

..many customers are ordering this kind of cheap DACs straight from China (AliExpress, Aoshida, Shenzen Audio etc). That way, you could forget about your "2 years EU warranty", if you have any issue, then, you're screwed.
...reliable products for what matters, that will be way more relevant to the final user than 1.5dB of extra SINAD.

These are valid points, and if one buys ultra-cheap he gets what he'd paid for (including possible counterfeit products etc.).
And, when a manufacturer has a "myriad" of parallel models for the same purpose, it certainly isn't going to make service logistics simpler.
The future of "shooting star" manufacturers like Topping will IMHO depend on how they handle this in the long term.

An example: RME (I got the ADI2-DAC): It also has its "popular issue", here's the thread: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29856
Now, why this won't hurt a company like RME but it would hurt a company like Topping? Reading the thread delivers the answer.

 

[Bleib]

Hopefully this can be compared to SMSL D-6 DAC.. curious who does AKM better

 

[respice finem]

...we still cannot 100% pin point what the issue is. And also published else where we are extending the warranty for all of our amplifier line. If this doesn't show our care for our customers, I don't know what does. ... I'm really busy with all the new stuffs(actually new stuff). I can't spend too much time on the forum like before. I do casually look for issues people reported.

Stuff happens. IMHO the issue is (despite your respectable efforts) too little /too late communication sometimes. Look how fast RME answers.

ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series (Page 1) — RME User Forum

ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series (Page 1) — RME User Forum —

forum.rme-audio.de

Perhaps Topping might hire some people to improve this? Technical prowess, sometimes, isn't everything. Just my 2 cents.

...Does it really matter that much if I constantly replying to comments here?

Definitely. This shows, somebody (competent) cares. The difference betweeen good companies and so-so ones.

 

[Trell]

These are valid points, and if one buys ultra-cheap he gets what he'd paid for (including possible counterfeit products etc.).
And, when a manufacturer has a "myriad" of parallel models for the same purpose, it certainly isn't going to make service logistics simpler.
The future of "shooting star" manufacturers like Topping will IMHO depend on how they handle this in the long term.

An example: RME (I got the ADI2-DAC): It also has its "popular issue", here's the thread: https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29856
Now, why this won't hurt a company like RME but it would hurt a company like Topping? Reading the thread delivers the answer.

And last December RME released a firmware fix that at alleviates the issue with corroded contacts causing the skipping/jumping volume knob issue. Posters having the problem seemed happy with it, as I recall.

The fix is configurable but one downside is that acceleration will be slower.

So, it’s not that manufactures have issues but how they deal with it.

Edit: I’ve the RME ADI-2 DAC FS bought last year but have not experienced this issue myself. Later on I bought the UCX II audio interface that is even more expensive.

 

[3125b]

So basically Topping measures well but has QC issues?

They have had quite a few issues, I remember E30 phase, L30 exploding and PA5 significant failure rate off tue top of my head. Some were dealt with well, others not so much.

However their achievements in terms of performance per dollar can‘t be overlooked completely.

For anyone considering a Topping product I‘d suggest waiting a few month after release so that potential issues may be fixed - or at least discussed openly so one can steer clear if necessary. A product that works as intended is a good value then.

 

[respice finem]

And last December RME released a firmware fix that at alleviates the issue with corroded contacts causing the skipping/jumping volume knob issue...

Thanks for the info, i'll be updating then, though my unit doesn't seem to be affected (or I'm using the knobs too sparingly, the remote doing all the work).

 

[JohnYang1997]

Stuff happens. IMHO the issue is (despite your respectable efforts) too little /too late communication sometimes. Look how fast RME answers. Perhaps Topping might hire some people to improve this? Technical prowess, sometimes, isn't everything. Just my 2 cents.

I used to be here all the time. But I'm really busy nowadays.
There's a weird issue I felt:
For some small issues I don't feel the need to comment. I felt the service email can handle that pretty easily.
For larger issues (thankfully not many) things like PA5's issue it's really difficult to reply. Because unless we figure it all out we can't say anything for certain. And we did the best thing(at least I thought) we could, extending the warranty. So for whatever reason it's broken you don get a replacement.
I will try to come here more often than past half to a year. It's difficult to hire technical guys just for the forum. Our customer service person will get more involved. So let's see how it goes. But even now she has been bugging me multiple times a day for our customers' questions and issues that faced.
And recently there has been issues and suggestions with A90 Discrete and we released a couple of firmwares as soon as we could. Not just from the reports here but also from users in China. We are trying our best to bring out best experience for you all.
And thank you for your reply.

 

[anmpr1]

I only know how some medical suppliers and hard drive manufacturers are handling it (OK the expensive medical stuff aside, but HDDs and SSDs are similarly priced to DACs or amps). If you have an issue within the warranty period = replacement without many questions asked, and fast. They must have a certain local / regional contingent of any given product to be able to do so. What happened to me years ago in Germany, I got 2 HDDs as replacement for 2 failed (almost synchronously), of a newer and larger capacity model, but this is of course HDD specific.

Long story short: You can if you want to, as a manufacturer. Yes it will cost some money...

Good point. I think those are excellent points. I'd say, however, there's a difference between getting an exchange from, say, Western Digital or Samsung. Those brands are typically sold to consumers via retailers (not always, of course), and it is most often easier to deal with an intermediary who has the franchise, and is used to dealing with customer needs. They also have large world-wide distribution, and units are produced in the millions, if not tens of millions.

I really don't have an idea of how it is in the EU, so my ignorance is my limitation, there. But here's an hypothetical: Why doesn't Topping (or the other Chinese wunderkinds) offer warranty stations/local support in the countries they sell? In the US, this would certainly increase the price of the unit. Rent, employee costs (how many employees would they need to respond to sales/warranty claims?), inventory control, shipping, tax returns, etc.

Or deal with an established distributor of other devices who can offer peace of mind support? Like Sumiko?

Let's say it doubles the cost. That would be three hundred dollars. What if it tripled the cost? You are still only at four hundred and fifty dollars. At four times the price it's 600 USD. Is that too much to pay for a SOA (specs) DAC or headphone amp? It's still less than Benchmark pricing, for all the number crunchers in the audience. And a lot less than the folks in Binghamton charge. I mean, even at double to four times the price, they are knocking glasses with the Full of Schiit guys.

I think it is a good question Topping could answer. Not that they have to explain or justify their business model to me. Only from a consumer and 'good neighbor' point of view. And I think consumers interested in maintaining some semblance of a local economy might want to know. Or maybe no one cares, at the price point of a few Happy Meals. "Stack 'em high and watch 'em fly... Stack 'em deep and sell 'em cheap!"

One thing's for sure... even at three to four times the price, Internet Influencers could write about how it's a 'bargain' (like they always do, regardless of the price of the gear they are barking), and for at least once in their lives they'd be honest and truthful.

 

[JohnYang1997]

They have had quite a few issues, I remember E30 phase, L30 exploding and PA5 significant failure rate off tue top of my head. Some were dealt with well, others not so much.

However their achievements in terms of performance per dollar can‘t be overlooked completely.

For anyone considering a Topping product I‘d suggest waiting a few month after release so that potential issues may be fixed - or at least discussed openly so one can steer clear if necessary. A product that works as intended is a good value then.

I do agree with you. I do suggest waiting for a month or two for issues to be discovered and fixed. Well i do understand that when issues are discovered by the users it's not a good look. But little did they know, many issues were discovered in the first production run and our QC and fixed before the products leave the door. There has been also many times we discard whole first run of products just to fix a issue. (I know a few of our competitors would just sell them and perhaps fix in the second run).

The bottom line: If the device cause harm to other components it has to be acted quickly. If not I do believe our warranty would take care of most of the issues.

 

[Thomas savage]

Topping E30 II Measurements
I am running on empty at nearly 2:00am here on top of not feeling well today

I did tell you not to drink that tea Rob sent over !

 

[respice finem]

...For some small issues I don't feel the need to comment. I felt the service email can handle that pretty easily.

That's perhaps, as the Germans say, "where the dog lies buried". You cannot be here all the time, that's for sure. But somebody should. The simple "logic" behind it: The service email is read only by the person with the issue, the forum is read by many, many more. The risk: the passive readers will know the issue, but not necessarily the solution, and will think "OK, another one to avoid"...
Alternative: an own open forum like the RME forum?