Topping E30 DAC Review

[Mr:River]

@JohnYang1997
I have an old Dac / Amp Topping D2 that I really like with the HE400i.
I was wondering if I would have a breakdown / loss or gain by adding the dual power P50 + Dac E30 to the old D2?
I'm not trying to get rid of D2 unless I see a good reason for it.

 

[stakatchh]

Hi all

https://www.stereophile.com/content/centrance-dacport-lx

Is it a good measurement for 2020 year?. I have this old DAC for about 8 or 9 years in my workplace. Do I need better dac? I usually listen to Spotify through Koss 950 electrostatic headphones. Now i received Sundara headphone.....and I wonder would it better to buy only amplifier topping l30 (and keep my old dacport LX) or dac/amp topping DX3pro or maybe L30+D10s

BTW sorry for my English!)

 

[bogi]

I think the measurements don't show a reason to change it for E30. Especially if you like its sound signature. You would need to directly compare Dacport LX with E30 in your setup. I would for now go only for L30 if you need an amp for Sundara.

 

[half_dog]

Even on high gain, max volume? Because I've tried a lot so far and still notice it. Either it's the cables, or the DAC it's self.
If i turn off the DAC - I hear the background noises / static
If i remove the DAC and take off the RCA cables but leave the RCA cables in the amplifier i hear the noise
If i remove the RCA cables from the amplifer - i hear nothing and it's perfect
If i leave RCA cables in the amplifier and DAC - but remove USB cable - It's pefect

Just checked power cord and RCA are not touching - I'm also using these RCA cables if it matters.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...roduct-image-1507006118_600x.jpg?v=1598945568
I've also just ordered a different pair off Ebay to see if it's the cable.

Hi there! I don't know if someone has suggested it, but 2 things. First, SP200 has a really high gain and is quite easy to get some fainted noise from most of the DACs connected to an USB port. Although, as you described it seems another thing.

I would suggest you to lift the ground pin from SP200 (using a adapter with only two pins, for example) and test if the noise reduces or mitigate - this way, the ground path will be only via the ground from RCA connectors.

 

[Astrozombie]

That was odd, So i bought a Schiit Loki EQ and put after my Topping and before the Magni. Didn't really make much of difference really.........but i noticed i would get errors here and there when adding EQ, which confuses me as I figured the signal was already beyond the DAC so why would it interfere with it? I had to switch inputs back and forth to get the signal back.

 

[SaberCat]

That was odd, So i bought a Schiit Loki EQ and put after my Topping and before the Magni. Didn't really make much of difference really.........but i noticed i would get errors here and there when adding EQ, which confuses me as I figured the signal was already beyond the DAC so why would it interfere with it? I had to switch inputs back and forth to get the signal back.

Interesting issue - the Loki appears to be a 100% analog gain stage & passive filter stack with no digital circuitry, so there's no obvious way for it to feed back any interference into the digital components of the Dac. The only thing I can think of here is the possibility that the Loki has an input muting capability or another way to short the inputs (which seems unlikely to me as it would be bad design but it could just be a fault) and this might be triggering a protection circuit in the output of the Dac.

I cannot imagine any other mode of interference unless the PSU is outrageously noisy which you would doubtless hear....maybe the best bet is to sell it as it won't do anything except degrade the performance of the Dac anyway.....but horses for courses.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

I was just wondering : what is the recommended USB speed for the E30 ? USB3, 2 or 1 ?
Does it depend on the sampling frequency ?
I'm counting my rig's USB ports, and of course I don't have USB3 for everybody.

 

[AndyLu]

I was just wondering : what is the recommended USB speed for the E30 ? USB3, 2 or 1 ?
Does it depend on the sampling frequency ?
I'm counting my rig's USB ports, and of course I don't have USB3 for everybody.

USB2 has more than sufficient bandwidth/throughput for any audio type and no it does not depend on sampling frequency.
Just connect it to USB2 and you are fine.

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Great! Thanks. Then I will use 2 USB3 ports for gaming stuff, and 2 USB2 ports for my DACs.
The reason is that USB3 may have better latency than USB2, which can be critical in gaming but not in Hi-Fi audio.
Some sites say that USB3 doesn't have better latency, but I've found this one with real world measurements that says otherwise:

USB3: 190MB/sec, 750 iops, 1.3ms latency
USB2: 43MB/sec, 200 iops, 6ms latency

Source: https://serverfault.com/questions/6...eed-stream-latency-of-usb3-and-usb2-over-sata

Anyway, it can't hurt, right ?

 

[MadMan]

There's a lot more to USB latency than USB 2.0 v USB 3.x anyway. USB How a given port is implemented on the motherboard, whether through the CPU directly, chipset, or a secondary controller, and on top of that the quality of the implementation. Plus that particular page compares a SATA drive using USB, which means some type of USB-SATA bridge, and who knows how good that bridge is for latency.

Also, things get annoying to talk about with USB Audio 1 and 2, because when people say USB 2, do they mean the bus speed of USB 2.0 or the protocol USB Audio 2? I just felt like throwing that pet peeve in.

 

[voodooless]

The Xmos chip is USB 2 only anyway. Plugging it in a USB 3 capable slot won’t change that.

 

[Crhino]

I'm trying to find out if I can get Windows volume control to control the volume on the E30. I tried searching the thread, but can't seem to find a direct answer to that question (or I have missed it).

I have E30+L30 stack and my preferred setup would be to max the volume on the L30 and use E30 to control volume from Windows, so I can do it from the keyboard (if I have to adjust on the stack, I will just use L30 for volume control).

I have the drivers installed, and the volume slider in the Topping driver panel is controlled by Windows volume, but the display on E30 does not change volume like it does when using the remote, so it seems the volume sliders in the Topping driver is just the Windows volume.

Does anyone know if it is possible to control E30 volume from Windows volume control?

 

[bogi]

Upsampling 48k based rates to 1bit 12.288 MHz is significantly lower CPU loading than to 11.2896 MHz.

So it's nothing to do with available music content.

So I just wanted to ask if DSD256x48 or DSD512x48 works with E30. Does it play music.

HQPlayer is free to try. It is fully featured for 30 minutes and then you can just restart the player again.

Can you test (for free)?

It seems this few months old question remained unanswered. E30 is able to play 48k based DSD content but there are some bugs since developers didn't count with the HQPlayer community and didn't test that.

Test files for those sample rates are not easily available since standard DSD downloads or SACDs use 44.1k based sample rates. For testing with 48k based DSD rates one can use upsampling in HQPlayer Desktop (on the fly during playback) or one can create test files with HQPlayer Pro by converting from other format (PCM or DSD). Free trial is sufficient for that in both cases.

Now about the bugs:

a) DOP mode (DSD128 6.144 MHz, DSD256 12.288MHz)
48k based DSD content plays OK but E30 display shows 11.28 instead of 6.14 for DSD128 and 22.57 instead of 12.28 for DSD256. For DSD128 the Topping ASIO driver Control Panel shows 384000 Hz (that's the correct expected value for DoP DSD128).

b) native DSD (DSD128 6.144MHz, DSD256 12.288MHz, DSD512 24.576MHz)
If 44.1k based content (PCM or DSD) was played before, after switching to 48k based DSD sample rate (say DSD128 6.144) the E30 display shows 5.64 and music plays slower than it should in the ratio 44.1 / 48. The work around is to switch to DoP and back. Then the music content will be played without issues but the E30 display shows 11.28 instead of 6.14 for DSD128 and 22.57 instead of 12.28 for DSD256 (like in DoP). The ASIO driver control panel shows correct DSD sample rate (6144000 Hz for DSD128, 12288000for DSD256). If 48k content DSD content was played before, the switching to DoP and back is not needed to get correct playback speed.
DSD512 24.576MHz does not bring any sound from E30. HQPlayer is playing and sending data into the DAC, ASIO driver control panel shows correct sample rate 24576000 Hz and it seems the E30 XMOS receiver is getting data, but display incorrectly shows 45.15 and no sound is coming from analog outputs.
The 44.1k based DSD512 content plays without issues in native DSD mode.

There are many DSD capable DACs which correctly play 48k based DSD content. Some manufacturers repaired things after user feedback and then new models are already capable of 48k based DSD from the beginning. Since Topping has also higher class DACs like the D90 one, I suggest to solve these issues to make Topping DACs more attractive for HQPlayer users and generally for users demanding the highest class DACs and solutions. Otherwise requests of this type will come again and again.

 

[JohnYang1997]

It seems this few months old question remained unanswered. E30 is able to play 48k based DSD content but there are some bugs since developers didn't count with the HQPlayer community and didn't test that.

Test files for those sample rates are not easily available since standard DSD downloads or SACDs use 44.1k based sample rates. For testing with 48k based DSD rates one can use upsampling in HQPlayer Desktop (on the fly during playback) or one can create test files with HQPlayer Pro by converting from other format (PCM or DSD). Free trial is sufficient for that in both cases.

Now about the bugs:

a) DOP mode (DSD128 6.144 MHz, DSD256 12.288MHz)
48k based DSD content plays OK but E30 display shows 11.28 instead of 6.14 for DSD128 and 22.57 instead of 12.28 for DSD256. For DSD128 the Topping ASIO driver Control Panel shows 384000 Hz (that's the correct expected value for DoP DSD128).

b) native DSD (DSD128 6.144MHz, DSD256 12.288MHz, DSD512 24.576MHz)
If 44.1k based content (PCM or DSD) was played before, after switching to 48k based DSD sample rate (say DSD128 6.144) the E30 display shows 5.64 and music plays slower than it should in the ratio 44.1 / 48. The work around is to switch to DoP and back. Then the music content will be played without issues but the E30 display shows 11.28 instead of 6.14 for DSD128 and 22.57 instead of 12.28 for DSD256 (like in DoP). The ASIO driver control panel shows correct DSD sample rate (6144000 Hz for DSD128, 24576000 for DSD256). If 48k content DSD content was played before, the switching to DoP and back is not needed to get correct playback speed.
DSD512 24.576MHz does not bring any sound from E30. HQPlayer is playing and sending data into the DAC, ASIO driver control panel shows correct sample rate 24576000 Hz and it seems the E30 XMOS receiver is getting data, but display incorrectly shows 45.15 and no sound is coming from analog outputs.
The 44.1k based DSD512 content plays without issues in native DSD mode.

There are many DSD capable DACs which correctly play 48k based DSD content. Some manufacturers repaired things after user feedback and then new models are already capable of 48k based DSD from the beginning. Since Topping has also higher class DACs like the D90 one, I suggest to solve these issues to make Topping DACs more attractive for HQPlayer users and generally for users demanding the highest class DACs and solutions. Otherwise requests of this type will come again and again.

Upsampling does nothing good. When something can be supported it doesn't mean it needs to be supported.

 

[bogi]

So you in Topping don't want to get money from users demanding features and ready to pay for high end products. Your concurrency is doing the opposite. Your bad.

I will write a mail also officially to Topping and then I will publish the answer on relevant forums.

 

[JohnYang1997]

So you in Topping don't want to get money from users demanding features and ready to pay for high end products. Your concurrency is doing the opposite. Your bad.

I will write a mail also officially to Topping and then I will publish the answer on relevant forums.

Is this threatening? I don't feel this being a friendly response.

 

[Harmonie]

I urge for dislike buttons !

 

[Jimbob54]

Is this threatening? I don't feel this being a friendly response.

Customer is always right. Except when they are wrong, or at least a little misguided.

 

[bogi]

Is this threatening? I don't feel this being a friendly response.

I was expecting a different type of your response to my customer feedback and findings.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

So you in Topping don't want to get money from users demanding features and ready to pay for high end products. Your concurrency is doing the opposite. Your bad.

I will write a mail also officially to Topping and then I will publish the answer on relevant forums.

You can’t hear anything that dsd has to offer. Stop obsessing over the inaudible.