Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

[Harmonie]

Understand.
Point is that for some short listening sessions, I run a USB cable D90<> laptop sitting at my sweet spot.
Can't do it with optical (no output) and haven't ripped & loaded yet on my NAS.

So ?

 

[abdo123]

Understand.
Point is that for some short listening sessions, I run a USB cable D90<> laptop sitting at my sweet spot.
Can't do it with optical (no output) and haven't ripped & loaded yet on my NAS.

So ?

Use Airplay / DLNA. But you need a small board computer connected to the DAC like a raspberry pi.

 

[Harmonie]

Raspberry is my next step indeed.
Time to sleep here !

 

[trl]

What the Hell, had a scare with my D90, my PC wasn't recognizing it through USB, swapped out a few other little DACs and they all showed up fine, thought the USB input on the D90 crapped out.
Few days later, I am getting ready to email Apos, but decided to swap USB cables and try it again, and it's working fine now. Weird how the cable didn't affect the other units, just the D90. Gonna have to swap the suspect cable back in just to be sure, though.
Anyone else have this happen before??

An interesting reading might be found here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/topping-d90.24402/reviews#item-review-23824. Not quite your same issue, but still closely related I'd say.

 

[Harmonie]

An interesting reading might be found here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/topping-d90.24402/reviews#item-review-23824. Not quite your same issue, but still closely related I'd say.

I have exactly the same issue, all the guy "Gippy" from Head-Fi had to do is swapping the USB cable and @abdo123 explained it's possible and way logical reason.

 

[sq225917]

Certified usb cables are guaranteed to work up to 5m in length. Most usb cables aren't certified. Find a cheap brand that is

 

[frogmeat69]

An interesting reading might be found here: https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/topping-d90.24402/reviews#item-review-23824. Not quite your same issue, but still closely related I'd say.

I have never had any popping sounds or noise from my D90, and no problems with the driver making the USB port "go to sleep". The USB cable I was using seems to have been causing my unit to not be recognized by my PC, it noticed something was plugged in, but didn't know what it was. Swapping cables has solved it so far, it's been fine since the change, and I hope it stays that way.
I do run it through a powered hub, so I might try the old cable direct into a port on my PC. Just glad it's working again.

 

[auronthas]

Oh, dear....I completely forgot those streamers !!!!
The reason ?
Every single reviewer I remember was complaining: hard to connect, signal lost, lack of control, little coverage...only accepting MP3 or WAV and not FLAC.....no multipoint service...

16 years into music streamer since Slim Devices SB3 then SONOS Connect and now Auralic Aries Mini, network streamer (WIFI or ethernet) can play almost all lossless format , WAV, FLAC, ALAC, not to mentioned those lossy format ... there's no losses in my home network , previously using power over ethernet (POE aka homeplug), now using mesh system. No buffering issue, listening to external streaming apps like Tidal Master, Spotify, etc also not an issue.

Digital Source: Aries Mini (USB out)
DAC : D90 MQA (USB in) (XLR out)
Pre-AMP/Headamp : A90 (XLR in/XLR out )
AMP: Krell KAV-400xi (XLR in)

 

[sq225917]

Sounds like he just had a faulty usb board that eventually gave up the ghost. He should just return it, they'll swap it out.

 

[Mikechw]

I also have random white noises coming out from my D90 occasionally. When it happens I can actually hear the music and loud white/pink noise together.. I only happens randomly after it plays 768kpcm for a few seconds..
My USB cable is around 2 metres long..
If I stopped or pause / resume playing via Roon, the white noises disappears..
I suspect its either driver settings or cable issues..
Now I changed to output 32bit at ASIO driver settings to try out. If it still fails. I will change to a shorter USB cable and try.

 

[trl]

MQA or non-MQA version?
Latest firmware and drivers?
ASIO? WASAPI? etc.?
What OS used?
Only on Roon or in other players too?

 

[Mikechw]

MQA or non-MQA version?
Latest firmware and drivers?
ASIO? WASAPI? etc.?
What OS used?
Only on Roon or in other players too?

My D90 is non-MQA.. Latest drivers.. ASIO.. Windows 10 Professional latest patch..
I only use Roon.. Audio is convolutioned through Roon and upsample by HQPlayer..
So when playing 768kpcm,, Audio file is 48khz.. then upsample by HQPlayer to 768k using Sinc-L filter..

May be its HQPlayer's problem..
The white noise only came up a few times.. It rarely happens..

 

[trl]

May be its HQPlayer's problem..
The white noise only came up a few times.. It rarely happens..

Well, it might worth investigating for the exact same song where the noise appears, but a different media player.
However, if the noise is not 0 dBFS, trying to kill your ears, then it might not be such a huge issue, but still interesting and unwanted behaviour.

 

[Mikechw]

It is not the song. If i replay the same song with roon and hqplayer there are no white noise..
The white noise is quite loud..Its louder than my listening level.. I have to turn down the volume when it happens..

 

[trl]

Not sure if you guys saw the below clips:

Seems that "upgrading" some caps and op-amps will "improve" the sound. We can all realise this simply by "hearing" the audio from those Youtube tracks playing.

I see that the guy has access to a Foscurite audio interface, so he could probably record the audio before vs. after, but also comparing with the original soundfile.

By looking at the mainboard here: http://av2day.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Topping-D90-2.jpg I see that the guy changed the blue non-polarised caps from nearby the TPS7A47/TPS7A33 regulators with polarised ones. He also swapped the polymer caps nearby the same regulators with aluminium ones, probably with a worse ripple reduction. I wonder how the pre and post ringing plots now on an oscilloscope when powering ON the device. I wonder if at least ripple has been reduced by doing this so called "mod".

Not sure why he changed the caps from the linear power supply, nearby the blue transformer, because no active components are powered from this LPSU directly, as there are follower regulators that further lower the AC ripple and noise anyway. Hope the four diodes can sustain the increase in in-rush current while powering ON the device. I also wonder if those two big caps with huge legs standing on top of the two quartz and on top of the ARM chip, nearby the two quartz and the ALTERA chip is not increasing the mains hum.

I see that he's also swapping the LME49720 from output buffer with MUSES01; at least I hope they are not fakes.

I simply not understand why changing something that works great already.

 

[Veri]

By looking at the mainboard here: http://av2day.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Topping-D90-2.jpg I see that the guy changed the blue non-polarised caps from nearby the TPS7A47/TPS7A33 regulators with polarised ones. He also swapped the polymer caps nearby the same regulators with aluminium ones, probably with a worse ripple reduction. I wonder how the pre and post ringing plots now on an oscilloscope when powering ON the device. I wonder if at least ripple has been reduced by doing this so called "mod".

Not sure why he changed the caps from the linear power supply, nearby the blue transformer, because no active components are powered from this LPSU directly, as there are follower regulators that further lower the AC ripple and noise anyway. Hope the four diodes can sustain the increase in in-rush current while powering ON the device. I also wonder if those two big caps with huge legs standing on top of the two quartz and on top of the ARM chip, nearby the two quartz and the ALTERA chip is not increasing the mains hum.

Oh my love the dissection lol. Dude basically's got barely a clue of what he's doing, got it.

 

[Dclone]

USB cables are limited by distance. 5m is way too much.

Well, I use 10 meter USB cable without problems. The brand is Swedish, Supra. The serie is called LoRad if I remember correct. Well built, shielded and at modest price.

 

[abdo123]

Well, I use 10 meter USB cable without problems. The brand is Swedish, Supra. The serie is called LoRad if I remember correct. Well built, shielded and at modest price.

5m is the absolute limit for USB 2.0 devices (almost all USB inputs on DACs). I don’t know what to tell you but that’s the published specifications. There is a reason why USB or HDMI are not used for Networking.

 

[hmscott]

Well, I use 10 meter USB cable without problems. The brand is Swedish, Supra. The serie is called LoRad if I remember correctly. Well built, shielded and at modest price.

The Jenving Supra cables are great, I've got the 0.7m USB A=>B cable for my PC to D90 MQA USB connection.

5m is the absolute limit for USB 2.0 devices (almost all USB inputs on DACs). I don’t know what to tell you but that’s the published specifications. There is a reason why USB or HDMI are not used for Networking.

Supra's 10m USB cable isn't even the maximum supported distance for Supra USB, Jenving offers a 12m and 15m Supra USB cable:

USB 2.0 A-B BLUE 12M (jenving.com)
USB 2.0 A-B BLUE 15M (jenving.com)

USB 2.0 A-B (jenving.com)
"...Many USB interface users are accustomed to that the USB interface limits the distance between the devices, but not any longer. Supra USB 2.0 allows for distances up to 15 meters between your devices! The trick is as always, the shielding, separate for each pair of leads, correctly twisted leads, and the exact impedance alignment of 90ohm..."

The USB 2.0 max distance spec has been exceeded in function by better materials and build technique and craftsman-like build care - and individual length tuning for cables to meet spec at longer distances.

LoRad is Jenving's power cable/hardware series products:

Power (jenving.com) Power (jenving.com)

Power - Supra LoRad Product Range
"LoRad is an abbreviation of Low Radiation. LoRad is a patented product range, using unique design features. While these products help shield you and your family from electric and magnetic interference fields, a today recognized reason for serious illness, your multimedia products is given much better working conditions since RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) is suppressed by efficient shields and also a chance to survive an over-voltage peak from e.g. lightning.

The Supra LoRad product range is now well-known and used in hospitals, flight control towers, etc. where there is no room for system malfunction due to electro-magnetic interference deriving from multiple sources.

The product range benign audiophile properties are today acknowledged and match lot more expensive products. Our mains flex is still a flexible cable, approved according to Intertek's hard scrutiny, instead of the usual stiff-as-a-crowbar power cables out there. Supra mains flex has helped to maintain the mobility of medical equipment, thanks to the highly flexible and durable design."

 

[abdo123]

The Jenving Supra cables are great, I've got the 0.7m USB A=>B cable for my PC to D90 MQA USB connection.

Supra's 10m USB cable isn't even the maximum supported distance for Supra USB, Jenving offers a 15m Supra USB cable:

USB 2.0 A-B BLUE 15M (jenving.com)

USB 2.0 A-B (jenving.com)
"...Many USB interface users are accustomed to that the USB interface limits the distance between the devices, but not any longer. Supra USB 2.0 allows for distances up to 15 meters between your devices! The trick is as always, the shielding, separate for each pair of leads, correctly twisted leads, and the exact impedance alignment of 90ohm..."

LoRad are Jennings power cable/hardware series products:

Power (jenving.com) Power (jenving.com)

Power - Supra LoRad Product Range
"LoRad is an abbreviation of Low Radiation. LoRad is a patented product range, using unique design features. While these products help shield you and your family from electric and magnetic interference fields, a today recognized reason for serious illness, your multimedia products is given much better working conditions since RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) is suppressed by efficient shields and also a chance to survive an over-voltage peak from e.g. lightning.

The Supra LoRad product range is now well-known and used in hospitals, flight control towers, etc. where there is no room for system malfunction due to electro-magnetic interference deriving from multiple sources.

The product range benign audiophile properties are today acknowledged and match lot more expensive products. Our mains flex is still a flexible cable, approved according to Intertek's hard scrutiny, instead of the usual stiff-as-a-crowbar power cables out there. Supra mains flex has helped to maintain the mobility of medical equipment, thanks to the highly flexible and durable design."

The Supra cables look certified, so they might be decent.