Topping D70 Pro Sabre DAC Review

[staticV3]

Why would Topping use XLR out on D70pro but balanced TRS in on A70pro? It doesn't matter for sound, but it requires purchasing a slightly unusual cable like this.

Or am I missing something?

These are XLR/TRS combo jacks:


You can use both regular XLR cables and TRS cables.

 

[Mort]

Funny, I own the A70pro and never realized that was a combo jack. I thought it was TRS only. Thank you.

 

[staticV3]

Funny, I own the A70pro and never realized that was a combo jack. I thought it was TRS only. Thank you.

Just for reference, here's what regular TRS jacks look like:

 

[Mort]

Yeah, I just thought they were balanced TRS with some kind of sleeve. Ingenious.

 

[PoisonRoses]

Hi D70 owners,

Would like to clarify something regarding the output options, if both RCA & XLR (ALL) output are selected, is it possible to assign different volume for each output? For example, XLR is -30dB and RCA is 0dB. Or is it possible to assign dedicated volume for RCA output and XLR output mode?

Appreciate if someone can entertain me, thanks in advance.

 

[huts]

These are XLR/TRS combo jacks:
View attachment 386967

You can use both regular XLR cables and TRS cables.

I have recording gear with this plug and thought it was a funky looking XLR for all these years

 

[Bob101]

Hi D70 owners,

Would like to clarify something regarding the output options, if both RCA & XLR (ALL) output are selected, is it possible to assign different volume for each output? For example, XLR is -30dB and RCA is 0dB. Or is it possible to assign dedicated volume for RCA output and XLR output mode?

Appreciate if someone can entertain me, thanks in advance.

The answer is: no. To all of your questions. As an owner sometimes I wish it were possible, too. The volume setting (actually digital output attenuation value) when used in pre-amp modefor are always the same for XLR and RCA, both when used seperately or combined. No way around it. On powering up, the DAC will always be at the same output level as when last switched off. For XLR, RCA or both.

 

[PoisonRoses]

The answer is: no. To all of your questions. As an owner sometimes I wish it were possible, too. The volume setting (actually digital output attenuation value) when used in pre-amp modefor are always the same for XLR and RCA, both when used seperately or combined. No way around it. On powering up, the DAC will always be at the same output level as when last switched off. For XLR, RCA or both.

Thanks, this clear up my query. I would like to connect the DAC thru XLR out to my powered monitor and RCA out to headphone amp. Looks like I need to buy another headphone amp with pre-amp out function then.

 

[Bob101]

Thanks, this clear up my query. I would like to connect the DAC thru XLR out to my powered monitor and RCA out to headphone amp. Looks like I need to buy another headphone amp with pre-amp out function then.

I use the XLR and RCA out to switch between amps for my speakers (with a speaker/amp selector box, but that's besides the point).
All I do is adjust the D70 output level to the level I know to be appropriate before switching. It's simple and doesn't involve any investment in new gear. Do you ever use your powered monitors and your headphones at the same time? If not, that's all you need to do. Unless you do it often, like for A/B, I can understand not having to adjust levels could be handy.

 

[Samstoned]

Hello there,

I have an Eversolo dmp-a6 Master Edition connected through USB to a Topping D70 Sabre.
1. How do I get the best output from both? The topping displays 192khz. Is there a way to get more than this?
2. Is there a difference if I use the Topping as Dac vs Dac/preamp?

Thank you much.

 

[staticV3]

2. Is there a difference if I use the Topping as Dac vs Dac/preamp?

It does not matter if you use the A6 as Streamer+DAC+Preamp, the A6 as Streamer+Pre->D70 as DAC, or the A6 as Streamer->D70 as DAC+Preamp

Sound quality will remain identical.

 

[Samstoned]

It does not matter if you use the A6 as Streamer+DAC+Preamp, the A6 as Streamer+Pre->D70 as DAC, or the A6 as Streamer->D70 as DAC+Preamp

Sound quality will remain identical.

Thank you so much.

Would you know the answer for the first question also?

I appreciate you.

 

[staticV3]

1. How do I get the best output from both? The topping displays 192khz. Is there a way to get more than this?

Even if you could get more than 192kHz, sound quality would remain identical.

In fact, thanks to the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem, even if the sample rate dropped to 48kHz, sound quality would still remain identical.

 

[guyboisvert]

Exactly. In some cases, my CD's ripped in AIFF actually sound a bit better than the 192k version available on Qobuz. Don't automatically think higher resolution equals higher audio quality. The difference may only be more processing.

It depends on the source recording / mix. Raising bitrate doesn't change the result since we have oversampling and noise shaping since a long time. As for using more bits, it just lowers the noise floor which is already better than human hearing at 16 bits.

 

[guyboisvert]

Hello there,

I have an Eversolo dmp-a6 Master Edition connected through USB to a Topping D70 Sabre.
1. How do I get the best output from both? The topping displays 192khz. Is there a way to get more than this?
2. Is there a difference if I use the Topping as Dac vs Dac/preamp?

Thank you much.

The DMP & the Topping will sound the same. You don't tell us if you're doing volume control with the DMP or using an analog preamp. Let's assume you're doing the former.

1) On the Topping, the best output is XLR (balanced) output while on the DMP (in your setup), it's USB. The only exception would be if the source is too far from the DAC (outside of the USB standard cable lenght limit), in which case you'd use optical. Downside of optical: If DAC is slave clock.

2) For the DMP, if you use and external DAC, you'll be doing volume control in Digital, which is usually less desirable compared to high quality analog volume control. I'm not sure how the DMP does volume control but if it's high quality analog, i'd remove the Topping.

If Topping displays 192 KHz, it's just the bitrate of the incoming signal: The Topping can't do anything about that. The source (DMP-A6) just sends the bits it reads from file / stream.

 

[mike7877]

It depends on the source recording / mix. Raising bitrate doesn't change the result since we have oversampling and noise shaping since a long time. As for using more bits, it just lowers the noise floor which is already better than human hearing at 16 bits.

There is a tangible difference between 16 and 24 bit audio - you have to be listening louder than background levels, but it's there. 24 bit is also especially useful during recording - if levels are set too low, with 24 bit you don't end up with a low quality capture

 

[staticV3]

There is a tangible difference between 16 and 24 bit audio - you have to be listening louder than background levels, but it's there.

Citation needed

 

[guyboisvert]

There is a tangible difference between 16 and 24 bit audio - you have to be listening louder than background levels, but it's there. 24 bit is also especially useful during recording - if levels are set too low, with 24 bit you don't end up with a low quality capture

Simply do a fair blind test and you'll hear no difference at all. Compare 2 sources using same equipment at a matched listening level. And it'll be valid if you don't know which source is playing, other than that you'll have your brain trick you (it's know since a long time!):

Adding more bits just lowers the noise floor, that's it. It's basic knowledge, undergrad level in electrical engineering. If you studied in science with advanced math, then you can read this:

Amazon.com

You can go listen to this too, it's nicely presented by an engineer and can be understood by non-engineers:
D/A and A/D | Digital Show and Tell (Monty Montgomery @ xiph.org)

24/32 bits has its place in recording studio for obvious reasons (addition of noise, just like analog mixing) so you want end signal to have CD level performance. Not for playback where it doesn't bring anything: Final mix is saved in 16/44 and it's better than human hearing!

Oh, i forgot, for a proper test, convert a 24 bits file to 16 bits. There are so many versions of the same recording with different mixes, remasters, etc.

 

[mike7877]

Simply do a fair blind test and you'll hear no difference at all. Compare 2 sources using same equipment at a matched listening level. And it'll be valid if you don't know which source is playing, other than that you'll have your brain trick you (it's know since a long time!):

Adding more bits just lowers the noise floor, that's it. It's basic knowledge, undergrad level in electrical engineering. If you studied in science with advanced math, then you can read this:

Amazon.com

You can go listen to this too, it's nicely presented by an engineer and can be understood by non-engineers:
D/A and A/D | Digital Show and Tell (Monty Montgomery @ xiph.org)

24/32 bits has its place in recording studio for obvious reasons (addition of noise, just like analog mixing) so you want end signal to have CD level performance. Not for playback where it doesn't bring anything: Final mix is saved in 16/44 and it's better than human hearing!

Oh, i forgot, for a proper test, convert a 24 bits file to 16 bits. There are so many versions of the same recording with different mixes, remasters, etc.

Lol you assume I haven't done tests...

Pop music normalized to -1dB with the VU meter sitting at -12dB and the peak meter never dropping below -25dB, I agree 100%, 16 bit and 24 bit would be indistinguishable. Classical music, though, there's a difference, and it's not even that difficult to hear.

I'll add, you do need to be using very good equipment - it needs to be set up right, and also the listener needs a trained ear.
Take two people off the street and they can't even tell the difference between a violin and a viola, a clarinet and an oboe.

I don't really want to debate this - we'd argue forever:
"you shouldn't be able to"
"I can"
"I don't believe you, you shouldn't be able to"
"I can"
"I don't believe you"

I'd invite you over and demonstrate, but the likelihood of us being in the same general area is next to nil. Plus, depending on how one is invested in "you shouldn't be able to", you could easily deny the [small] difference.

Think about this for a second: in a classical song, after a crescendo a violin comes in - quietly, at -55dB. There is 35dB dynamic range left. This is worse than a cassette.

Can you tell the difference between a violin recorded at -3dB on 16 bit digital, and that same source signal recorded on a cassette at -3dB?
(the answer, if you're being honest, is yes. So for a realistic reproduction of an orchestra, 16 bit audio is not enough. Is it enough for a $300 mini-system? Yes. Is it good enough for a $1,000 Sears catalog stereo? Probably. Is it good enough for a $15k system in a treated room? Not quite.
For practical purposes, 16 bit is enough. For true high-fidelity reproduction, it's not quite enough.

 

[MediumRare]

Lol you assume I haven't done tests...

Pop music normalized to -1dB with the VU meter sitting at -12dB and the peak meter never dropping below -25dB, I agree 100%, 16 bit and 24 bit would be indistinguishable. Classical music, though, there's a difference, and it's not even that difficult to hear.

I'll add, you do need to be using very good equipment - it needs to be set up right, and also the listener needs a trained ear.
Take two people off the street and they can't even tell the difference between a violin and a viola, a clarinet and an oboe.

I don't really want to debate this - we'd argue forever:
"you shouldn't be able to"
"I can"
"I don't believe you, you shouldn't be able to"
"I can"
"I don't believe you"

I'd invite you over and demonstrate, but the likelihood of us being in the same general area is next to nil. Plus, depending on how one is invested in "you shouldn't be able to", you could easily deny the [small] difference.

Think about this for a second: in a classical song, after a crescendo a violin comes in - quietly, at -55dB. There is 35dB dynamic range left. This is worse than a cassette.

Can you tell the difference between a violin recorded at -3dB on 16 bit digital, and that same source signal recorded on a cassette at -3dB?
(the answer, if you're being honest, is yes. So for a realistic reproduction of an orchestra, 16 bit audio is not enough. Is it enough for a $300 mini-system? Yes. Is it good enough for a $1,000 Sears catalog stereo? Probably. Is it good enough for a $15k system in a treated room? Not quite.
For practical purposes, 16 bit is enough. For true high-fidelity reproduction, it's not quite enough.

Thanks for sharing your personal opinion. Science requires verifiable data, otherwise called facts. Can you provide some?