Topping D70 Pro Sabre DAC Review

[staticV3]

Been playing it since with about six hours on it with no drop outs.
Sounding excellent again.

Should the drop outs return, try increasing the Bandwidth setting:


It was designed specifically for that purpose.

 

[Audiobliss2]

I saw that while searching through the manual for a solution, but since the dac had no issues with bandwidth for over 30 days, I was reluctant to mess with that setting.
But if it does start happening again I surely will, as the only other option the Amazon dealer was giving me , was to mail it back to China at my expense and wait months, and hope it doesn't get lost.

 

[Nordling]

Should the drop outs return, try increasing the Bandwidth setting:
View attachment 372581

It was designed specifically for that purpose.

"Bandwidth: the larger the number is, the stronger the ability to adapt to jitter, and the smaller the number the better the performance."

I'm curious: what does this mean for the performance. How much will SINAD be influenced?

 

[Bleib]

"Bandwidth: the larger the number is, the stronger the ability to adapt to jitter, and the smaller the number the better the performance."

I'm curious: what does this mean for the performance. How much will SINAD be influenced?

If I remember correctly it increases jitter. It should all be inaudible though.

Edit: From SMSL C200 manual which I'm currently reading:

"DPLL 1~9, the lower the value, the smaller the clock jitter.
This DPLL setting is a unique function of ESS series products. It can adjust the bandwidth
of the DPLL digital phase-locked loop circuit inside the chip, so that the chip can
achieve a balance between anti-clock jitter and input tolerance.
Effect:
When the clock stability of the input signal is good, this value can be reduced,
so that the clock performance of the system is better;
When the clock stability of the input signal is not good, the sound may be
interrupted. Increasing this value can avoid the occurrence of audio
interruption! Especially when using TV as the signal source"

 

[staticV3]

"Bandwidth: the larger the number is, the stronger the ability to adapt to jitter, and the smaller the number the better the performance."

I'm curious: what does this mean for the performance. How much will SINAD be influenced?

SINAD is not affected. Only jitter gets slightly, inaudibly worse.

 

[Bob101]

Been having a output drop out issue with my D70 Pro Sabre for the pass weeks.
It was driving me crazy trying to isolate the problem. First I thought it was my streamer, didn't want to believe it was the dac, as it is the newest item in the system.
But after I realized that the drop out would happen with all inputs to the dac, I swapped the D70 for a E70 I have in another system , and that proved it.

So of course the return period had just passed, so after many emails back and forth with the dealer, I had to send them a video of the music stuttering, which I was lucky to catch one night, because you never know when it's going to happen.

They factory finally recommended that I update the firmware to v1.07 , mine was v1.05 when I checked. So I took it over to my IT friend yesterday, as I did not trust myself doing it. Well as he did a search looking for v1.07 , v1.08 showed up, just released yesterday. So he installed that, and it streams to have cured the problem.
Been playing it since with about six hours on it with no drop outs.
Sounding excellent again.

Just read this. Love this DAC, and although I've not had any problems whatsoever, I checked and noticed I was still on firmware v1.05. Downloaded v1.08 and upgraded. Only noticeable difference: the VU-meter now actually visibly moves, which is nice.
Of course I set bandwith for jitter to the lowest (4) for BEST performance!

 

[Audiobliss2]

Just read this. Love this DAC, and although I've not had any problems whatsoever, I checked and noticed I was still on firmware v1.05. Downloaded v1.08 and upgraded. Only noticeable difference: the VU-meter now actually visibly moves, which is nice.
Of course I set bandwith for jitter to the lowest (4) for BEST performance!

Did you actually hear a difference when you lowered it to 4 ?
I have had many dacs, and never had to adjust bandwidth.

 

[Bob101]

Did you actually hear a difference when you lowered it to 4 ?
I have had many dacs, and never had to adjust bandwidth.

None. And all filters sound the same too.

 

[ScofieldKid]

Just read this. Love this DAC, and although I've not had any problems whatsoever, I checked and noticed I was still on firmware v1.05. Downloaded v1.08 and upgraded. Only noticeable difference: the VU-meter now actually visibly moves, which is nice.
Of course I set bandwith for jitter to the lowest (4) for BEST performance!

Thanks for the firmware notification. Same here, no problems, but nice to get it. For Linux folk, it helps if you remove spaces and single-quotes from the name of the firmware file. Works fine to rename it "D70_Pro_SABRE_FW1.08.Topping" before copying over. My 2 cents. Running with it now.

 

[Audiobliss2]

Anyone knows how to check the firmware on a E70 ? I thought it would be the same way as the D70, but that didn't work.
I have one for almost a year with no issues, surprisingly when I called Amazon about the D70 , the guy told me he preferred the E70.

 

[ScofieldKid]

Anyone knows how to check the firmware on a E70 ? I thought it would be the same way as the D70, but that didn't work.
I have one for almost a year with no issues, surprisingly when I called Amazon about the D70 , the guy told me he preferred the E70.

You might want to try that question in the E70 thread. Looks like they are tracking a different set of version numbers for the E70 vs. the D70, so it would be very confusing if we started posting links to the E70 here in the D70 thread.

 

[figman]

I was comparing pictures of the PCBs of the D70S and the D70 Pro. I noticed that the D70 Pro uses switching power supplies instead of the linear power supply in the older units. This is a interesting choice, given common audiophile wisdom is that the latter is superior. Also it seems the D70 Pro does not contain the FPGA and also the femtosecond clocks found on the previous version. I was wondering if someone more knowledgeable than me can comment on these changes.

 

[nomograf]

I was comparing pictures of the PCBs of the D70S and the D70 Pro. I noticed that the D70 Pro uses switching power supplies instead of the linear power supply in the older units. This is a interesting choice, given common audiophile wisdom is that the latter is superior. Also it seems the D70 Pro does not contain the FPGA and also the femtosecond clocks found on the previous version. I was wondering if someone more knowledgeable than me can comment on these changes.

It's worth updating your knowledge of the current state of the art in Switching PSUs.

Check out this article as an easy start point - https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/ap...audio-myth-switching-power-supplies-are-noisy

 

[Bob101]

I was comparing pictures of the PCBs of the D70S and the D70 Pro. I noticed that the D70 Pro uses switching power supplies instead of the linear power supply in the older units. This is a interesting choice, given common audiophile wisdom is that the latter is superior. Also it seems the D70 Pro does not contain the FPGA and also the femtosecond clocks found on the previous version. I was wondering if someone more knowledgeable than me can comment on these changes.

I didn't know my D70Pro had an SMPS... I only know it is a very good and versatile DAC.

I don't claim to be especially knowledgable, but there is the big difference between these models is the make of DAC-chip. AKM for de D70s and ESS for the D70Pro (sabre). It is my understanding that, certainly flagship-ESS-chips have more components, like clocks, integrated on the chip itself. Also maybe reason why the FPGA is no longer implemented. Anybody more knowledgable, please comment/correct

As for the Linear/switching PS debate: I think it is clear by now that in low-power applications, a good quality, well-implemented SMPS has no downsides compared to a linear PSU. Quite the contrary. A DAC is not a power-device. If the switching frequency is wisely chosen, and the the filtering is of high quality (which is relatively easy for this kind of low-power apllications) I have no issue with the use of SMPS. And nobody should.

On PSU's: I have the Audiophonics (the wholelottalettersandnumbers model name, yep that one) Purifi Stereo power-amp of course with an SMPS. I know it is a good design, made for Class D modules (specifically designed for HYPEX units I presume, but perfectly suitable for the Purifi's too). Still I can't help but wondering: what would this amp sound like wtih a big, heavy, Linear (toroidal or other) PSU in it? It would not be a simple swap. But still: I wonder. Sometimes. Not for long. I got an Elac Alchemy Series DPA-2 on loan from a neighbour. It has Hypex modules powered by SMPS, but a discrete buffer-section with it's own seperaate linear power-supply. The Elac is like slightly punchier, denser sounding. For the first five minutes. Listening any longer I can't tell the difference.

In a few hours I'll be reunited with my early 80's HarmanKardon PM650 integrated. Now that will sound different than class D.
Completely revised by Etienne, the last of the all-knowing amp-men in the wide region. Well into his 70's he's still on top of everything. Does like Class D, streaming, dacs... but says that those are impossible for him to work on. He'd need laptop/smartphone-grade tools and diagnostics for that.

 

[figman]

Thanks for the insights folks. I did not know that about switching power supplies. Yes I do wonder if there is an integrated clock generator in the ESS PRO chip. I'm assuming this version is also cheaper to build as well for Topping as well in regards to raw component costs.

 

[Veri]

I was comparing pictures of the PCBs of the D70S and the D70 Pro. I noticed that the D70 Pro uses switching power supplies instead of the linear power supply in the older units. This is a interesting choice, given common audiophile wisdom is that the latter is superior.

This is also always a relevant article :

Do you need linear power supply for DACs?

Probably the most asked about question about DACs on audio forums is whether an external, usually linear, power supply improves performance. It just makes sense that it would do that. Doesn't it? Well, let's see if we can figure this out. I have been kindly loaned a Wyrd4Sound PS-1 power...

www.audiosciencereview.com

spoiler: ....no. You don't

 

[Yuri_B]

The DAC worked for two months and died. When turned on, it displays the splash screen, then reboots again. The device allows me to install the firmware, but the result is the same.

 

[Audiobliss2]

Unplug the power for awhile, then see if that helps.

 

[pitmaster]

Üdv. Tudna valaki küldeni nekem egy linket a D70_Pro_SABRE_FW1.08.Topping frissítésről.

 

[Mort]

Why would Topping use XLR out on D70pro but balanced TRS in on A70pro? It doesn't matter for sound, but it requires purchasing a slightly unusual cable like this.

Or am I missing something?