Topping D70 Pro Sabre DAC Review

[Sokel]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...opping-e70-randomly-went-to-max-volume.42422/

The fun part of the thread is the last post where an E50 actually did the opposite, it went from fixed mode 0dB to pre mode at -30dB out of the blue.
(They should copy this glitch and use it for safety reasons )

 

[Roland68]

I do it every day And if you make statements like you do, some evidence would be 'nice' to say the least. And: you obviously don't own a D70. Once set up it's impossible to blow up your speakers or amp. Unless you reaalllly want to.

You're implying Topping is unreliable. So if you have any proof of that, go ahead. With no proof, that's just plain bashing and you're wasting everybody's time. I do sound reinforcement and we drive high wattage sound systems with DBX Driverack (digital) control units, would you say it's "dangerous" ? Is it a "risky practice" ?

If you have a remote control - it can also press a button and suddenly make it very loud. If you have a motorized volume control - it can suddenly freeze and increase the volume to the maximum. The only thing that can protect you from such problems is an old mechanical volume control without any automation. And even then, you should not have a cat or small children who will suddenly twist your handle Alas, modern devices can suddenly make it loud. But do they do this regularly and often? No. I have never heard of such a thing. The only case when this happened was when an object fell on the remote control and pressed the button.

Most users don't understand the fundamental problem.
Most DAC chips start with default values. The default volume value is 0 dB. If an error occurs and the DAC chip reverts to this default value during operation, the full volume is available at the output.
Of course, this only applies to DACs where the manufacturer integrates this into the DAC chip (DSP function) for volume control.

For this reason, I would never use such a DAC to control the volume. Of course, you can prevent this by installing measures between the DAC and the amplifier, such as an attenuator.

Manufacturers, such as RME, know exactly why they don't use the volume control in the DAC chip but instead use their own digital volume control.

 

[Mike123]

Most users don't understand the fundamental problem.

I understand the problem. I work with microcontrollers. In most DACs I know, the volume value is stored in the EEPROM. And when resetting the microcontroller, it will not set zero, but will set the value from the EEPROM. Only a very serious error in the software will allow you to suddenly erase the EEPROM. But at the same time, the output switches are usually closed by default. And they are opened by the microcontroller only if it has tested all the equipment and is ready for work. How to combine all this to get the maximum sound at the output, I do not really understand.

 

[Talisman]

I understand the problem. I work with microcontrollers. In most DACs I know, the volume value is stored in the EEPROM. And when resetting the microcontroller, it will not set zero, but will set the value from the EEPROM. Only a very serious error in the software will allow you to suddenly erase the EEPROM. But at the same time, the output switches are usually closed by default. And they are opened by the microcontroller only if it has tested all the equipment and is ready for work. How to combine all this to get the maximum sound at the output, I do not really understand.

could you ask the Topping engineers? They obviously know very well how to do it

 

[Sokel]

I understand the problem. I work with microcontrollers. In most DACs I know, the volume value is stored in the EEPROM. And when resetting the microcontroller, it will not set zero, but will set the value from the EEPROM. Only a very serious error in the software will allow you to suddenly erase the EEPROM. But at the same time, the output switches are usually closed by default. And they are opened by the microcontroller only if it has tested all the equipment and is ready for work. How to combine all this to get the maximum sound at the output, I do not really understand.

Most of the time it probably has to do with modes (fixed/pre/etc ) or stored different output values I believe.
That's where they can mess up things.

(or the usual simple stuff like a win/firmware update at the ones who tie VC with win mixer)

 

[Mike123]

Most of the time it probably has to do with modes (fixed/pre/etc ) or stored different output values I believe.
That's where they can mess up things.

Of course they can. But these are some very childish bugs. The products of the Topping company that I have have never been noticed in such a way. And in general, the level of software from Topping is quite high and certainly higher than from the same SMSL. Therefore, I do not say impossible. I say unlikely.

 

[Sokel]

Therefore, I do not say impossible. I say unlikely.

Agreed 100%
I goes without saying that we're talking about rare cases.

 

[Roland68]

I understand the problem. I work with microcontrollers. In most DACs I know, the volume value is stored in the EEPROM. And when resetting the microcontroller, it will not set zero, but will set the value from the EEPROM. Only a very serious error in the software will allow you to suddenly erase the EEPROM. But at the same time, the output switches are usually closed by default. And they are opened by the microcontroller only if it has tested all the equipment and is ready for work. How to combine all this to get the maximum sound at the output, I do not really understand.

What would an EEPROM have to do with this?
These are registers in the DAC chip that are set directly by the microcontroller, and only when a change occurs. If an error occurs, this register reverts to the default value.

 

[Talisman]

I do not say impossible. I say unlikely.

I'm fine with that, and I agree that it's not the norm (and rightly so)
now given this assumption, would you connect a dac that PROBABLY but not definitely, will not go to 0bd randomly due to a problem with a power amplifier connected to your speakers?
Everyone can give themselves the answer.

 

[Mike123]

What would an EEPROM have to do with this?

Such that the volume level is remembered. And it is remembered in EEPROM. What kind of DAC failures are we talking about that can lead to a sudden maximum volume? A sudden reset? After that, during the initialization process, the value will be subtracted from EEPROM. Just an error when the volume number is erased from the register? Such an error is unlikely for a topping level manufacturer. At least, I have not seen anything about the D70 topping pro sabre in this thread.

 

[Mike123]

now given this assumption, would you connect a dac that PROBABLY but not definitely, will not go to 0bd randomly due to a problem with a power amplifier connected to your speakers?

I have an old Topping DX3Pro+ DAC. It used to be the main one. Now it works with a computer. It was always in preamplifier mode and adjusted the volume. Needless to say that in 5 years it has never suddenly changed the volume? I was not afraid that it would suddenly increase the volume to the maximum. All signal levels to the speakers are matched and cannot damage anything at maximum values. And I was not afraid of sudden loud sounds before, and now it is even more so .

 

[Sokel]

I have an old Topping DX3Pro+ DAC. It used to be the main one. Now it works with a computer. It was always in preamplifier mode and adjusted the volume. Needless to say that in 5 years it has never suddenly changed the volume? I was not afraid that it would suddenly increase the volume to the maximum. All signal levels to the speakers are matched and cannot damage anything at maximum values. And I was not afraid of sudden loud sounds before, and now it is even more so .

The main reason for frustration is probably the haste to put a product in the market too soon.
Read the last 10 or so pages here to see:

Topping DX5 II

I'm not so sure... The switch does not communicate with the host, so it is not a 'USB device'. So why would the USB device connection standards apply to it? I wonder what the standards think about this type of thing... :) From what I remember adapters like that, and A to A cables, were...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Bob101]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...opping-e70-randomly-went-to-max-volume.42422/

E70 is a diffenerent beast than the D70pro. Just saying. Nevertheless. I have once accidentally connected a DAC that I thought was in preamp mode and wasn't to my system, and though it was a very unpleasant experience, it only lasted a few seconds until things were back under control and nothing was permanently damaged. My poweramp can take 0 dB and seriously distort my speakers for a few seconds. I could increase the gain on the poweramp with less sensitive speakers, but I have that margin. It was purely my own mistake too. I can't imagine my D70 just jumping to 0dB without serious manipulation. -20dB is a solid +85dbSPL in my room, so I rarely go above -10dB.

 

[RichB]

IMO, all preamps should have power on volume and maximum volume settings.
The RMC-1+ has a Max volume setting but the 2 channel preamps do not.
There is always a chance of run-away volume. The remove could be stuck between the cushions.

I have one D90 Discrete connected as a preamp to an office system and another in DAC mode with a Benchmark LA4 preamp to my main system.

Benchmark AHB2 amps have additional protection and sensitivity setting and distortion monitoring protection.
I think I'll set the office system to low sensitivity so that even a 0 dB signal would not cause damage.
This is not a problem as normally, I am listening to 1 watt.

Good practice is to observe the volume level before starting the source.

- Rich

 

[Bob101]

IMO, all preamps should have power on volume and maximum volume settings.
The RMC-1+ has a Max volume setting but the 2 channel preamps do not.
There is always a chance of run-away volume. The remove could be stuck between the cushions.

I have one D90 Discrete connected as a preamp to an office system and another in DAC mode with a Benchmark LA4 preamp to my main system.

Benchmark AHB2 amps have additional protection and sensitivity setting and distortion monitoring protection.
I think I'll set the office system to low sensitivity so that even a 0 dB signal would not cause damage.
This is not a problem as normally, I am listening to 1 watt.

Good practice is to observe the volume level before starting the source.

- Rich

The remote of an analog preamp could be stuck between anything as well. Any remote volume controlled preamp or integrated has that 'risk'. I'd love to own a Benchmark system. they're SOTA, and good value at that. Still too steep a price for me, unfortunately. Benchmark are actually benchmark. It's a little unfair too compare a D70pro to a benchmarkLA4 as a preamp. I almost only listen to digital sources nowadays. But at the rare occasions I need to listen to an analog source I use an old Telefunken mixer used by the ORF for broadcasting in the nineties.

 

[RichB]

The remote of an analog preamp could be stuck between anything as well. Any remote volume controlled preamp or integrated has that 'risk'. I'd love to own a Benchmark system. they're SOTA, and good value at that. Still too steep a price for me, unfortunately. Benchmark are actually benchmark. It's a little unfair too compare a D70pro to a benchmarkLA4 as a preamp. I almost only listen to digital sources nowadays. But at the rare occasions I need to listen to an analog source I use an old Telefunken mixer used by the ORF for broadcasting in the nineties.

I also use a D90 Discrete in preamp mode with AHB2 and the gain settings provide some protection.

The LA4 Preamp and D90 III Discrete also does not have discrete IR commands for inputs, I and others have requested these for years.
Both lack maximum volume settings, that is worse for the LA4 that could easily overpower many amp input sections.

There seems to be a blind-spot, possibly willful, toward input selection and volume protection.
At least, Topping recently discovered that products with remotes also should have triggers

- Rich

 

[da Choge]

The LA4 Preamp and D90 III Discrete also does not have discrete IR commands for inputs

The Topping Pre90 (preamp) nor, its add-on, the Ext90, also do not have discrete IR input selection for sources. If it did, and also had a selectable Home Theater Pass-Through/Bypass input, and, at least a trigger out, with its measurements, it would be one of the best little preamps available. Alas ...

 

[guyboisvert]

Any D70 pro dacs EVER reported behaving like that? Another non-owner mingling in. It's getting hot in here

Yeah, never had that. Without proper stats, one can say anything he wants...

 

[Bob101]

Yeah, never had that. Without proper stats, one can say anything he wants...

They not only can, but also do...
When politely confronted, they go silent very fast. All those data and facts they have in their possession, and on which their statements are built? They rather keep all that valuable and very useful information for themselves, I guess

 

[Jeff Dennis]

New firmware available. https://www.toppingaudio.com/download/d70-pro-sabre-version-v1-10-firmware-update