Topping D70 Pro Sabre DAC Review

[BeeKay]

I was notified there was a dedicated D70 Pro Sabre thread by another user - would anyone be able to help me set this up correctly?

______________

Post from me from another thread

Hello everyone,

After reading and following this topic for a while, without an account, I'd decided to purchase the topping a70 pro + d70 pro sabre stack, along with a hifiman arya stealth. I've tried nearly everything, started a topic on another forum, and am unable to get sound out of the dac as the playback device. Everything else seems to work, device is recognized, drivers are installed, firmware is up to date, etc.: https://forums.whathifi.com/threads...rking-through-my-dac-need-some-advice.135190/

Would anyone happen to know what more troubleshooting I could do to get sound to work everywhere? I had only been able to achieve sound through Foobar2000, playing a downloaded .mp3 file through ASIO4ALL. No sound outside of Foobar2000.

I don't know if this topic is the right place, and I apologize if it isn't. I'm (very) new in the audio/hifi world. Any help is very much appreciated, my messages are open!

Output: SE / BAL set correctly to what your setup requires? To be safe maybe chose ALL.

Also check whether it’s in PRE or DAC mode. When in doubt press + on the remote to increase volume.

 

[Yoran]

Output: SE / BAL set correctly to what your setup requires? To be safe maybe chose ALL.

Also check whether it’s in PRE or DAC mode. When in doubt press + on the remote to increase volume.

Thank you; this was exactly what I had overlooked. Working just fine now! Changed SE on the AMP to BAL, and the DAC started to output sound, besides just showing it was outputting sound, but not hearing anything through my headphones.

'Fixed!'

 

[ivanfraser]

Thank you; this was exactly what I had overlooked. Working just fine now! Changed SE on the AMP to BAL, and the DAC started to output sound, besides just showing it was outputting sound, but not hearing anything through my headphones.

'Fixed!'

Hi Yoran. Pleased to see that you figured the issue - I understand how easy it is to miss the obvious with such complicated setup parameters.

However, I don't think the manufacturers make it easy for people when they provide their setup instructions. I have found that both Audiolab and Topping have provided out of date Windows setup instructions for DSD over Foobar. Topping, in particular have admixed older instructions with newer.

Foobar and plugins go through evolutions. In particular Foobar's DSD capabilities can be configured 'the old way', which you seem to be doing, and a newer - and simpler - way using a newer plugin called ASIO+DSD, which has been available for quite a while now.

Topping provides details for downloading both the older and newer pathways at the same time. This is unnecessary, and especially unnecessary and confusing for those unfamiliar with DSD via Foobar. The official guide from Topping in 'The Settings of Foobar Player' is a real mess and will just complicate and confuse people - especially newbies. You'll ultimately get your sound, but be stuck with the old out of date components, through a new up to date DAC.

Topping's guide has you installing the older plus newer files: ASIO proxy file from 2015!, as well as older 2023 ASIO+DSD files. It then shows you how to install the newer files; but instructs you then to set up the older file in the older manner (thereby negating the point of installing the newer asio+dsd file).

This means that, despite having a newer and up to date Foobar system, you will continue to use an antiquated (more complicated setup) system that has not had any updates for years, whilst the newer component is up to date, simpler and still has updates - latest update was only a couple of weeks ago.

ASIO4ALL used to be useful - for me at least, several years ago for the Audiolab 8300CD's DSD DAC. (there is a way to convert pcm to dsd on the fly using such plugins and using the dsd processor - which is fairly pointless IMO) but if all you want to do is play unaltered DSD through ASIO, and have PCM for pcm files, then it's simpler just to install the one ASIO+DSD component, and the SACD component and you're good to go. You can also use the dsd to pcm option, if you wish to play through another system that doesn't support native DSD.

see here for d/l of the components https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/

This has basically overtaken the need for the ASIOPROXY plugin since 2021! Topping's setup instructions tells you to download the older asio proxy plugin component, and work through the old setup, whilst also telling you to install the newer asio+dsd file - but ultimately doesn't even use it! The plugin they provide in their setup folder download is 10 years old - v0.72. see changelog here - https://sourceforge.net/projects/sacddecoder/files/foo_dsd_asio/

So, to keep current in Foobar, I suggest you do this: In Foobar, simply uninstall the older foo-out-asio (make sure you have the latest ASIO+DSD - foo-out-asio+dsd - component instead) set the 'Type' to DSD. The 'Output' to Topping USB Audio Device. That should give you bit perfect output over ASIO.

Then refer to the Sourceforge page now and then to see if there are any updated components for out-asio+dsd and input-sacd. You then have a range of versions to choose from, should an update create issues, for example.

Sorry if this seems complex - it isn't really. Topping's guide is complex and illogical.

Hope that makes sense :0)

 

[mike7877]

That's a very interesting question - and it should be a basic one. The effect is "masking".

First of all, yes, If the noise is 60 dB SPL it is impossible to hear pure tones at 35 dB. Here is a test you can do yourself. Play it through the best audio system you can and have bat ears, it won't make any difference. The sounds are NOT additive. There is a curve of audibility at various frequencies.

This is the essence of sound mixing, where, for example, one instrument (e.g. a bass drum) is reduced in level to "make room" to help a more dynamic instrument in a similar frequency range (electric bass guitar) stand out. Otherwise they mask each other and it all gets muddy.

There is a twist: Since mammal brains evolved to detect patterns there is an effect of white noise enhancing discrimination of pure tones, but the effect is very small and only relevant very close to the background noise. But once you sink below the background noise even a pure tone is masked.

I got lost for a bit, sorry...

The average energy level over the entire frequency band with pink noise is 60dB. You're saying any tone notably below 60dB would be impossible to hear through the pink noise because the pink noise is 60dB?

Think of it this way: if there is a 300Hz tone playing at 88dB, is it your contention that I shouldn't be able to hear a 2500Hz tone at 53dB?

You must know that the properties which give unique sounds the characteristics you recognize, are all of the harmonics and undertones above and below the root note, right? All of them are much lower in level than the root note, and when that instrument is playing with other instruments which are similar levels to them, you don't cease being able to determine which instrument is which, correct? (ie. you can tell the piano is doing ____ the guitar is doing ____ )

 

[ivanfraser]

I've had this dac for a few weeks now and am very impressed.

I'm still wondering why Topping chose 'minimum phase' as the default filter.

It was my impression that Topping usually default to fast rolloff linear phase.

Do any of the techies here have any opinion? Is there an advantage to minimum phase in these dacs. Because having read a fair few opinions, there seems to be quite a strong consensus that fast roll off linear phase is the technically 'correct' choice for hi fidelity.

Is there some Topping magic applied to this DAC which has any significant impact on the Sabre that makes the min phase superior to the linear/fast. (I see a minor improvement in frequency extension in Amir's graph). I hear very very slight differences between the 2 filters, which depends on the source recording - and which differ depending on whether the track is via headphones or speakers.

Thanks in advance

 

[MediumRare]

I got lost for a bit, sorry...

The average energy level over the entire frequency band with pink noise is 60dB. You're saying any tone notably below 60dB would be impossible to hear through the pink noise because the pink noise is 60dB?

Think of it this way: if there is a 300Hz tone playing at 88dB, is it your contention that I shouldn't be able to hear a 2500Hz tone at 53dB?

You must know that the properties which give unique sounds the characteristics you recognize, are all of the harmonics and undertones above and below the root note, right? All of them are much lower in level than the root note, and when that instrument is playing with other instruments which are similar levels to them, you don't cease being able to determine which instrument is which, correct? (ie. you can tell the piano is doing ____ the guitar is doing ____ )

No, if you read/watch what I posted you'll see the masking effect is at nearby frequencies, only. So: "if there is a 300Hz tone playing at 88dB" you wouldn't hear a, say 250Hz, tone at 53dB. But we were talking about noise, which is wide-spectrum. And it's not "my contention", I've provided independent scientific sources.