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Topping B100 Amplifier Review

Rate this amplifier:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 28 6.7%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 24 5.8%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 79 19.0%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 284 68.4%

  • Total voters
    415
I think it’s better to leave the posts as they are. People can read through and discover the errors and mistakes made. Deleting posts typically has more of a disruptive impact on the conversation flow. Of course I could be wrong here. But my gut instinct is to leave it up and let the readers follow the process and conversation to its conclusion.
 
My 1st test is perfectly valid in case that someone used the 3-wire RCA to XLR cable to fix the ground loop issue, as it is often recommended here at ASR. Topping does not give any warning that such adapter cable is impossible to be used. They also do not disclose that there is the direct BTL topology. So the review is valid for that kind of connection and the schematics is in the review. The measurement with this connection is not an error, it is what it is.

The 2nd review utilizes the amp topology properly and is in conformance with Amir’s results, so it is an independent verification. Both Amir’s and my review show that Topping B100 is unable to yield the rated power at THD+N<1% into 4ohm, as it shuts down before reaching the rated power. If the rated power is reached into 8 ohm is questionable, as above the knee at 54W it is difficult to make any reliable reading. And it is only this 2nd review that is now directly accessible from my HomePage.
 
I think it’s better to leave the posts as they are. People can read through and discover the errors and mistakes made. Deleting posts typically has more of a disruptive impact on the conversation flow. Of course I could be wrong here. But my gut instinct is to leave it up and let the readers follow the process and conversation to its conclusion.
I learned from PMA’s test. Others will too.
 
I think BTW, that the 20ms comes from CEA-2006/490A (and 480ms rest). This is used in ASR reviews for the Peak Power measurement. Since frequency is not specified, it doesn't need to be at 20Hz.

Not quite.

It's 20 cycles @0dB and 480 cycles @-20dB and is derived from the EIA test. It is not time based.

The EIAJ (Japanese/JIS) test is/was 8 cycles @0dB and 24 cycles at zero (-∞).

The two tests don't deliver wildly different results in my experience.

The EIA test was traditionally performed on an oscilloscope, where the trigger was adjusted to grab the 20 cycle burst and measure/study the point where the waveform clipped and how it behaves during the 20 cycles. With an analyzer it just keeps repeating, ramping up the gen out until the target THD (limit) is reached. The duty cycle is very low (~25%)- you can run it all day and barely heat up a thing.

Done at 1kHz, is very easy on the amplifier and will produce some impressive looking numbers to sell products to the unsuspecting.
 
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When it was written in the 70s, it was meant to ward off "unfair" Japanese marketing.

To be fair, it was manufacturers everywhere who were deceiving the general public. The Americans started the peak/dynamic/adding all channels marketing, not the Japanese.

Go read some 1960s US audio magazines and look at the fictitious "power" figures they touted.
 
My 1st test is perfectly valid in case that someone used the 3-wire RCA to XLR cable to fix the ground loop issue, as it is often recommended here at ASR. Topping does not give any warning that such adapter cable is impossible to be used.
Sadly, in an attempt to maximize profits and minimize efforts, Topping seem to have a tendency to cut corners everywhere, in product design, in support and in documentation.

If they don't use a proper subtractor/rebalancer circuit right at the input of the B100 it simply does not comply to most basic requirement of balanced connections: you must not make any assumption about signal symmetry, or in other words, common-mode voltage shall be ignored and shall not have any impact on performance.

Calling this an amplifier with balanced input and 100 Watts is a total scam, it's a shame.
 
We still don't know what this thing can actually achieve on a continuous basis. Continuous is not a few hundred milliseconds, it's 5 minutes.

I'll stick to 5 minutes for all my continuous tests. I can't think of any amplifier in my enormous collection that would fail a 5 minute full rated power test.

In time, people will look back with disgust at this period of stupid little boxes, claiming to be "power amplifiers" when the very notion of a power amplifier is hundreds of real watts driving at high levels on a constant, reliable basis.
 
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Sadly, in an attempt to maximize profits and minimize efforts, Topping seem to have a tendency to cut corners everywhere, in product design, in support and in documentation.

If they don't use a proper subtractor/rebalancer circuit right at the input of the B100 it simply does not comply to most basic requirement of balanced connections: you must not make any assumption about signal symmetry, or in other words, common-mode voltage shall be ignored and shall not have any impact on performance.

Calling this an amplifier with balanced input and 100 Watts is a total scam, it's a shame.
It's how they found that extra dB of SINAD
 
@restorer-john : I know. But I did not want to destroy the amplifier of my friend, as it is out of the free return period (not free in fact, the postage to China is pretty expensive). After the 2 min stepped sine (stepped power) into 8 ohm the unit was warm and after the same stepped sine into 4 ohm the unit was hot and shut down. It took at least 10 minutes for the amp to recover. I think @capslock destroyed the amp at 33W sine - post #926.
And let’s not forget that 2 days earlier the amp shut down with music (Telarc Dvořák and Telarc Super Bass) when it was driven from balanced output of the Topping DX5 DAC.
 
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In time, people will look back with disgust at this period of stupid little boxes, claiming to be "power amplifiers" when the very notion of a power amplifier is hundreds of real watts driving at high levels on a constant, reliable basis.
I am afraid that the toy time will be even extended.
 
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In time, people will look back with disgust at this period of stupid little boxes, claiming to be "power amplifiers" when the very notion of a power amplifier is hundreds of real watts driving at high levels on a constant, reliable basis.
Will it be similar with Class-D?
When I look at a NAD M23 in comparison to other Purifi implementations, there is already a big difference.
 
Topping seem to have a tendency to cut corners everywhere, in product design, in support and in documentation.

Though my 5 email questions to them over the last few years have been responded to within 2 days.

How many times have you contacted them ?

It has taken 7 weeks thus far to get an energy performance certificate for my mothers flat, each of the other 34 flats are all rated 'C'.

All this Topping bashing seems a little disingenuous to me as a happy Topping customer so far.
 
Will it be similar with Class-D?

Absolutely, I think and hope so.

NAD know what they're doing and have been building amplifiers a very long time. They are improving and innovating. They made their name on amplifiers. If I wanted Class D Purifi I'd be looking at their products for long term value, reliability and resale down the track. They also look fantastic on the outside as well as the inside. You're getting value, not a stripped down poverty pack special.

I keep my HiFi for decades and that's important to me. I want to look at something in 10, 20 years and say, I still love it. Did I have to fix some minor things or has it just kept working?

I think it's fine there are guys screwing overpriced pre-built modules in simple boxes and making a few dollars, but they are not advancing the state of the art in any way. They are just riding the coat tails of much smarter designers and clever businessmen.
 
Though my 5 email questions to them over the last few years have been responded to within 2 days.

How many times have you contacted them ?

It has taken 7 weeks thus far to get an energy performance certificate for my mothers flat, each of the other 34 flats are all rated 'C'.

All this Topping bashing seems a little disingenuous to me as a happy Topping customer so far.
What I find disingenuous is asking people to pay shipping to China for their own faults on occasion.Declaring false product values often.
That's not what warranty is.
I also find disingenuous not to warn about shortcomings of their designs.One must visit this place to find out that RCA>XLR is no go and XLR>RCA is even dangerous to some of their models.

On top of that,I find disingenuous to be punitive and vocal about classes and minor inaudible issues only to disappear completely when things go seriously south.
PMA had the decency to find out the cause and publish it,he could very well leave the company explain that there's no semi balanced way to connect RCA as with most amps out there.

We have to be fair.
 
All this Topping bashing seems a little disingenuous to me as a happy Topping customer so far.

Maybe you have different expectations as to what HiFi and power amplification is all about.

Disingenuous is an overused word in today's society. It's often pretending to play victim for someone else, a kind of virtue signalling when all it takes is to be brutally honest and say this stuff is cheap toy HiFi with wildly exaggerated "specifications".

We've been saying for years Topping should stick to D/A converters- they are good at putting SOTA chips in little aluminium boxes. Amplifiers are NOT their strong point because they just don't get what an amplifier is supposed to be.
 
Let me put it this way: I bought two PA5 when they came out (I had a third one bought open box from a dealer that dropped a channel within hours of my operating them so after some arguing, he took it back). The two new ones have not had their famous problem, but they haven't been used much either. Do I like having the Damocles' sword hanging over them? Can I resell them at a decent price? That's a double no.

The PA5 and PA5II are quite powerful and rugged. I have used them for loudspeaker measurements, but I don't fully trust them because of their residual HF output and increasing harmonic distortion at high frequency.

I ordered the B100 (and just found out they have shipped so cannot cancel them) with the idea of using them for loudspeaker measurements without any question marks about how clean their output is. I have class AB amps designed by myself that are nearly as clean, but they have no protection other than fuses in the supply of the output stage, so not handy for testing. Little did I expect the B100 would have a finicky protection that trips all the time and is cumbersome to reset and still does not fully protect the amp from self destruction. Neither did I expect a balanced input that is not fully balanced. I expect they will be a pain to use in testing loudspeakers, and with their peak power limits, they will probably not be useful for driving fullrange speakers. Reselling them will not be easy once these problems get out, and returning them to the seller in the far east won't come free. I do feel cheated!
 
What can I expect in terms of ground loops with my WiiM Pro Plus if I use standard RCA cables?
I haven't had any problems with my little Fosi V3 Stereo so far: Everything is quiet as hell.

However, this warning about Hypex amplifiers on the Audiophonics website made me wonder:

„This amplifier has no decoupling capacitor and therefore lets the DC portion of the signal through. Make sure that there is no DC component at the output of your source. The module's DC protection kicks in at 12 VDC, which is very liberal.“

Is it the same thing with the Topping B100, and will there occur problems if I would use some of theses modern Chinese DACs like the Topping D90 III discrete?

It’s just, because I want to test how a real PFFT amp would sound in my system and 10 or 20 real Watts are more than enough for me, so I want to give the B100 a try.
 
when the very notion of a power amplifier is hundreds of real watts driving at high levels on a constant, reliable basis.

Unless you are only driving a Mylar membrane with a maximum excursion of 1mm which is aided by transformers boosting the signal to several kV.

Not everyone has a PA system for their domestic hifi.

My first stereo amplifier - the NAD's rated power output of 20 watts per channel continuous into 8 ohms was considered anaemic,[


I wonder how the NAD would have fared on here back then..Japanese hifi was treated as Chinese is now back in the 1970's.
 
We've been saying for years Topping should stick to D/A converters- they are good at putting SOTA chips in little aluminium boxes. Amplifiers are NOT their strong point because they just don't get what an amplifier is supposed to be.
But what about the B200? Seems to be much more sturdy, and the „specs“ (SINAD) are essentially the same as with the B100 (only 3 dB or so worse)! Could this be a Hypex/Purify/Eigentakt competitor?


The Topping guys seem to have an exceptional learning curve.
 
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