The Waxwing Thread

[Brian Hall]

It appears that the record grading option gets confused when playing the Drif album by Heilung. During a section with a lot of various sound effects, chanting, yelling and drums only the Waxwing grading was going crazy, changing from C+ to D- and sometimes F from A+ during a more "normal" music section. This is a brand new record. First play. I did clean the record before putting it on the turntable.

Just to make sure, I turned off the "Magic" option and replayed that section to listen for scratches or other damage and I didn't hear anything bad.

Not a big deal. Just thought it was interesting that the algorithm could get confused like that.

 

[Snoopy]

It’s interesting to read a post from someone saying a C+ record suddenly sounds great with Magic. Just shows different tolerances with noise between people. I think my worst record is a C+ but most are somewhere around a A.

But even with magic on I notice „issues“ that bother me here and there. That might be noise between tracks or clicks and pops that are a very mild pop. That is with Headphones. With loudspeakers I usually have no problems with noise.

Mono and Super Mono is a great feature for bad stereo recordings or real mono recordings. I love those 2

Overall the waxwing is a great phono stage and I would definitely buy it again.

Also would love to try the waxwing as Line-in for a tube Phono stage.

 

[Brian Hall]

It’s interesting to read a post from someone saying a C+ record suddenly sounds great with Magic. Just shows different tolerances with noise between people. I think my worst record is a C+ but most are somewhere around a A.

But even with magic on I notice „issues“ that bother me here and there. That might be noise between tracks or clicks and pops that are a very mild pop. That is with Headphones. With loudspeakers I usually have no problems with noise.

Mono and Super Mono is a great feature for bad stereo recordings or real mono recordings. I love those 2

Overall the waxwing is a great phono stage and I would definitely buy it again.

Also would love to try the waxwing as Line-in for a tube Phono stage.View attachment 386643

If you were responding to my post, I wasn't saying the record was a C+ or worse. I was saying that the combination of sounds on Heilung's album confused the grading algorithm used by the Waxwing.

I do have some really old records I inherited from the 50s and 60s that have a lot of problems. One old Sinatra record that is rated F quality (scratches, lots of pops and crackles) sounds almost perfect with the Magic function so yes, that does work well.

 

[Thomas_A]

If you were responding to my post, I wasn't saying the record was a C+ or worse. I was saying that the combination of sounds on Heilung's album confused the grading algorithm used by the Waxwing.

I do have some really old records I inherited from the 50s and 60s that have a lot of problems. One old Sinatra record that is rated F quality (scratches, lots of pops and crackles) sounds almost perfect with the Magic function so yes, that does work well.

There are other records that can fool the algoritms. The ABC ” Lexicon of love”-album fools the RTClickrepair and it is audible. It finds the peaks of beats and reduces the dynamics.

 

[antcollinet]

There are other records that can fool the algoritms. The ABC ” Lexicon of love”-album fools the RTClickrepair and it is audible. It finds the peaks of beats and reduces the dynamics.

It appears that the record grading option gets confused when playing the Drif album by Heilung.

You should both message Shannon Parks with this information. He may be able to use those songs to improve the algorithms.

 

[Brian Hall]

You should both message Shannon Parks with this information. He may be able to use those songs to improve the algorithms.

I emailed them about it and named the album where I saw it happening.

 

[somebodyelse]

It appears that the record grading option gets confused when playing the Drif album by Heilung. During a section with a lot of various sound effects, chanting, yelling and drums only the Waxwing grading was going crazy, changing from C+ to D- and sometimes F from A+ during a more "normal" music section. This is a brand new record. First play. I did clean the record before putting it on the turntable.

Just to make sure, I turned off the "Magic" option and replayed that section to listen for scratches or other damage and I didn't hear anything bad.

Not a big deal. Just thought it was interesting that the algorithm could get confused like that.

I take it Magic isn't adding any audible artifacts in that section? Magic and Grade are meant to use the same detection algorithm.

 

[Brian Hall]

I take it Magic isn't adding any audible artifacts in that section? Magic and Grade are meant to use the same detection algorithm.

Maybe a little. In that section it would be hard to tell.

 

[somebodyelse]

Maybe a little. In that section it would be hard to tell.

Which section is it? And how much of the sub-bass do they preserve on the LP? There's a lot of it on the streaming version.

 

[Thomas_A]

You should both message Shannon Parks with this information. He may be able to use those songs to improve the algorithms.

There are some other examples of electronic music that can fool. Now the algorrithms are probably different between software so it is good to collect those specific for the waxwing. The RTclickrepair is no longer developed.

 

[Brian Hall]

Which section is it? And how much of the sub-bass do they preserve on the LP? There's a lot of it on the streaming version.

The area I noticed the grading issue was on side 2 of the first record in a section without regular singing. It is a double album.

The bass sounded great. And I could feel it. I listened to the streaming version and I doubt if I could tell which was which.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

It appears that the record grading option gets confused when playing the Drif album by Heilung. During a section with a lot of various sound effects, chanting, yelling and drums only the Waxwing grading was going crazy, changing from C+ to D- and sometimes F from A+ during a more "normal" music section. This is a brand new record. First play. I did clean the record before putting it on the turntable.

I suspect Heilung would view the Waxwing being so challenged as a compliment. Adding a link to a YouTube video of a live concert (well worth checking out for the theatrics combined with the music), as well as Drif album for anyone who is not already familiar with this amazing band:

 

[Brian Hall]

I received a reply from Shannon Parks:

"Thanks for sharing that album, Brian - adding it to my test list. Definitely some content will trigger the algorithm, and glad you figured out it was just a limitation of the algorithm itself. Will certainly see if I can improve it in the future.

Also, thrilled you love the Waxwing - keep that vinyl spinning!"

 

[pmkv69]

I've been searching for a phono preamp for my setup Thorens TD320mkII turntable -> Topping DX7 Pro+ DAC (only digital inputs) -> Genelec active speaker setup. This might be the one....

 

[antcollinet]

I've been searching for a phone preamp for my setup Thorens TD320mkII turntable -> Topping DX7 Pro+ DAC (only digital inputs) -> Genelec active speaker setup. This might be the one....

It does seem pretty perfect for that application.

 

[wgh52]

The Waxwing may be the perfect phono DSP accessory to my so far "front to end digital signal chain" (incl. DSP x-over and DAC boards driving the power amps in my 4-way active speakers) as currently I'm only missing a decent A>D converter. So for the moment I'm using my MDS-JA555ES as 16/44.1 A>D converter, which is somewhat awkward... Now forgive me, but I'd really like my Lehmann Black Cube SE II PWX, so my questions are:

Am I bound to the cartridge level input of the Waxwing? ...or is there a setting with "small" amplification?
Would I have to put my Black Cube on the shelf and use the Waxwing instead, not in addion?
...or is there a possibility to reduce preamp amplification and even circumvent the RIAA equalization?
If that was possible, I could potentially also use the A>D functionality for other sources like tape or FM Radio.

Thanks for sheding some light!
Regards,
Winfried

 

[Salt]

If it's only for ADing have a look at the Cosmos E1DA.

 

[somebodyelse]

Am I bound to the cartridge level input of the Waxwing? ...or is there a setting with "small" amplification?
Would I have to put my Black Cube on the shelf and use the Waxwing instead, not in addion?
...or is there a possibility to reduce preamp amplification and even circumvent the RIAA equalization?
If that was possible, I could potentially also use the A>D functionality for other sources like tape or FM Radio.

Gain is configurable and RIAA can be turned off. There is a preset for CD which does this, or you can fine tune and save custom presets - maybe a bit more gain on the FM radio as those often had lower output than CD. See https://www.parksaudiollc.com/ for details.

Note: the API for the presets hasn't yet been documented, but most of the rest has, including gain and EQ settings. Just in case you were hoping to control it with something other than the phone app.

 

[wgh52]

If it's only for ADing have a look at the Cosmos E1DA.

Hi! Thanks for the hint, I had this on the radar, but the E1DA outputs to USB and I need Toslink or Koax SPDIF directly.

Greetings,
Winfried

 

[wgh52]

Gain is configurable and RIAA can be turned off. There is a preset for CD which does this, or you can fine tune and save custom presets - maybe a bit more gain on the FM radio as those often had lower output than CD. See https://www.parksaudiollc.com/ for details.

Note: the API for the presets hasn't yet been documented, but most of the rest has, including gain and EQ settings. Just in case you were hoping to control it with something other than the phone app.

OK! This is excellent news which I had overlooked when reading the web page! So, it would be relatively simple to make comparisons of the two phono/RIAA stages and decide which one to prefer/keep.

The only remaining risk issue is warranty and repair support as I am living in the European Union and there's no local support infrastructure here. I'll think about it, but this thing is very tempting!

Thanks,
Winfried