The Waxwing Thread

[pogo]

I have run through records of different qualities (state of use) with the GRADE function activated.
The table on the left shows the time stamp when a GRADE change was detected. The average input level is shown on the right.




Here is another good case where you can clearly see that the GRADE remains at a high level with few updated detections.



And here is another bad case.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Standard youtube video reply incoming....


Please can people posting youtube videos include a summary of what it is saying. They are a very inefficient way of transferring information, and people shouldn't have to watch the damn thing to find out if it has any interest to them at all.

It would also be useful to know why the poster is posting it. What point (if any) are they trying to make. Do they agree with the content, or not? If about a device, are there any measurements, or is it a purely subjective evaluation Etc

You mean like on those old episodes of Monty Python's Flying Circus when at commercial break you were advised of upcoming "Full Frontal Nudity". You would watch the rest of the show, but there never was any of the promised content. A dead parrot perhaps, but no "Full Frontal Nudity".....

 

[morris111111]

Hi,
Is this legit?

continue

 

[Bob from Florida]

Hi,
Is this legit?

continue

Parks only sells through Amazon. Might be used, but they don't specify that. They have a large inventory of Project turntables, but do not show up as a dealer.
Probably not legit.

 

[pogo]

Is this legit?

Here the answer from Shannon:

No. Either a scam or a dodgy 3rd party arbitrage.

Warm Regards,
Shannon Parks

 

[HoJ76]

WoW

 

[Laika2]

Hey Experts,

Bought a Waxwing and finally hooked it up, I'm coming off a Cambridge Alva Duo,

In the app I ...
Set cartridge weight
Lowered output by 2db due to clipping.
Turned on Magic and DeRumble.
I am using the RCA analog outputs.

Really liking this Swiss army knife.

Two questions.

1. Surface Noise is noticeably louder than the Cambridge, it's constant in very soft passages or dead space, even on UHQRs. which were about dead silent most of the time (I tend to listen loud) on the Cambridge. Thoughts? Settings?

Plan to try a digital output soon.

2. I see they really recommend an optical out, I have a open digital coax out. I can use the optical but will have to share it which means getting behind a tight spot. Totally doable but digital coax would be more convenient, So is the use of an optical cable really audible for most compared to a digital coax. I understand the concept that a wired contention is more prone to audio problems than a beam of light but how real world are these issues and would they likely be audible to the average ear?

Thanks in advance.

 

[markstein]

So, another happy Waxwing user here!

Works wonderful with my Technics SL1210GR and AT33PTG/II. Optical input into my RME ADI-2. Zero mains hum.

Despite using unbalanced connection to the turntable, I did not detect higher EMI on the input signal compared to going balanced into my Fireface mic preamp. Noise is maybe a bit higher, but low enough to not bother me. Totally different level (better) than my previous ProJect DS3B which had a lot of EMI "grass" and slight mains hum when being connected unbalanced to the cartridge.

The many features via app control are really cool. Set SR to 96kHz, LP 20Hz, HP30kHz. Derumble and magic usually are not required with most of my records, but are a welcome add-on.

Monitoring the levels in the app is essential to optimize gain structure. So far so clipping with my settings (gain 56dB/ volume 0dB ... gain 62dB/ volume -6dB depending on record). Surface noise seems very low, definitely not comparable to that of my previous ProJect DS3B which pronounced every tick and pop in an annoying way.

Azimuth alignment has helped me to optimize alignment of my cartridge. Much easier than going through my PC and fiddling with ARTA and doing the crosstalk calculation manually. Cool feature!

So far, I have to say that I am totally happy with this little device and can only recommend it to anyone with a turntable.

 

[markstein]

Two questions.

1. Surface Noise is noticeably louder than the Cambridge, it's constant in very soft passages or dead space, even on UHQRs. which were about dead silent most of the time (I tend to listen loud) on the Cambridge. Thoughts? Settings?

Be sure to avoid clipping in A/D stage as well as digital clipping. Both levels are displayed in the waxwing app (peak values). Optimize gain and volume for a comfortable safety margin (e.g. peak values < -3...-6 dB).

Plan to try a digital output soon.

2. I see they really recommend an optical out, I have a open digital coax out. I can use the optical but will have to share it which means getting behind a tight spot. Totally doable but digital coax would be more convenient, So is the use of an optical cable really audible for most compared to a digital coax. I understand the concept that a wired contention is more prone to audio problems than a beam of light but how real world are these issues and would they likely be audible to the average ear?

Just try the coax connection. If you do not notice any mains hum, you are fine. Otherwise an optical cable will be beneficial as it may break your ground loop and reduces main hum.

 

[Laika2]

Be sure to avoid clipping in A/D stage as well as digital clipping. Both levels are displayed in the waxwing app (peak values). Optimize gain and volume for a comfortable safety margin (e.g. peak values < -3...-6 dB).

Thanks, did Coax and that helped the surface noise a bit, then went 3db below any clipping, that helped, about equal to my old unit in surface noise. You got me where I wanted to be. You fixed the only advantage the Cambridge had.

Now here is a odd one.

Under the top left gear icon (you may have to switch to analog and back to digital to see the setting, sometimes it's not there but a quick switch back and forth brought up the menu.

It's called "BlueTooth THX Power" and states underneath "Less power may lower noise at high gain", I took it from 100% to 50%, (that's the minimum) This killed almost all surface noise. The surface noise is now way quieter than my old unit. Bluetooth has no connection issues at 50%. I'm lost as to why a simple bluetooth connection for communication and setup, not actually transmitting audio would do anything for surface noise, seems odd and something I would have never touched.

Credit to the author for putting the words under the slider. "Less power may lower noise at high gain"

PS: No ground loop on coax!

Thanks for all your help

Just try the coax connection. If you do not notice any mains hum, you are fine. Otherwise an optical cable will be beneficial as it may break your ground loop and reduces main hum.

 

[somebodyelse]

It's called "BlueTooth THX Power" and states underneath "Less power may lower noise at high gain", I took it from 100% to 50%, (that's the minimum) This killed almost all surface noise. The surface noise is now way quieter than my old unit. Bluetooth has no connection issues at 50%. I'm lost as to why a simple bluetooth connection for communication and setup, not actually transmitting audio would do anything for surface noise, seems odd and something I would have never touched.

In that case it may have been noise from bluetooth operation (EMI or conducted, maybe via power) not surface noise.

 

[Laika2]

In that case it may have been noise from bluetooth operation (EMI or conducted, maybe via power) not surface noise.

That would be my guess, is there a good guide I can DL on this product. I see you can save your own presets but can't see where. I shall goggle it if there is not a fuller guide, thanks again.

 

[antcollinet]

The surface noise is now way quieter than my old unit

This is not surface noise, and nor is any surface noise reduction possible from using digital interconnect.

Surface noise is simply the mechanical noise (unevenness in the surface of the groove picked up by the stylus) which is inherent in the meduim. This cannot be changed by electrical connections or bluetooth power. Those are both forms of electrical noise (probably ground loop in one case, EMI in the other)

 

[markstein]

It's called "BlueTooth THX Power" and states underneath "Less power may lower noise at high gain", I took it from 100% to 50%, (that's the minimum) This killed almost all surface noise. The surface noise is now way quieter than my old unit. Bluetooth has no connection issues at 50%. I'm lost as to why a simple bluetooth connection for communication and setup, not actually transmitting audio would do anything for surface noise, seems odd and something I would have never touched.

Thank you for highlighting this feature! Did not notice it so far and set it to 50% now. Will measure the noise impact later and report back.

Edit: The Bluetooth setting has absolutely no impact on noise level an spectrum with my setup @56dB gain.

I did not notice excessive noise even with (standard) setting the Bluetooth to 100% - the EMI impact might be cable dependent. I am using 0,5m coax cable to connect to the turntable - maybe there is improvement potential in your setup to make it less susceptible to EMI pick up (shorter/ different cable type)?

 

[Laika2]

This is not surface noise, and nor is any surface noise reduction possible from using digital interconnect.

Surface noise is simply the mechanical noise (unevenness in the surface of the groove picked up by the stylus) which is inherent in the meduim. This cannot be changed by electrical connections or bluetooth power. Those are both forms of electrical noise (probably ground loop in one case, EMI in the other)

All I can say is it was not present before a needle drop not was it present after a needle drop on non spinning record. It certainly had that sound of uneven grinding that changed level up and down as the record spun, (sort of like driving down uneven gravel road where tires hit different layers of gravel or just dirt) but much lower in pitch) and was worse on old records I knew has surface issues compared to a mint UHQR. I'm no expert in electronics. That's why I came here, to leach off others knowledge (and thank you all for that) taking the Bluetooth slider all the way down was the major factor that fixed it. Perhaps a combination of surface noise in the interference you mention.

 

[Laika2]

Thank you for highlighting this feature! Did not notice it so far and set it to 50% now. Will measure the noise impact later and report back.

Thank the author, It was so nice seeing explanations on any app choice, hats of to him, I wish Dirac and others would follow that lead, so many times I see a strange settings or box after reading hours of instructions, posts and you tube videos. I hate spending a few hours doing tweaking, then hitting a fork in the road and scrambling for more tutorials and youtube vids.

Edit: The Bluetooth setting has absolutely no impact on noise level an spectrum with my setup @56dB gain.

I did not notice excessive noise even with (standard) setting the Bluetooth to 100% - the EMI impact might be cable dependent. I am using 0,5m coax cable to connect to the turntable - maybe there is improvement potential in your setup to make it less susceptible to EMI pick up (shorter/ different cable type)?

Was jacked in analog, found a decent digital coax that was 6 foot long, looked for a shorter one but none in my box, 6 foot, a bit of a antenna so to speak. I'll dig farther or order a shot one, 12" would do just to see if it lowers whatever it is behind the surface noise / electrical airborne interference just for fun, after I lowered the bluetooth slider everything was fine.

PS in the cable department I always have a ton of overlap, frankly their is no way around it due to my setup placement. It could be cleaned up a bit but will still have a ton of overlap, I am way to embarrassed to put up a pick from behind me rig.

Thanks for your help and testing.

 

[markstein]

Was jacked in analog, found a decent digital coax that was 6 foot long, looked for a shorter one but none in my box, 6 foot, a bit of a antenna so to speak. I'll dig farther or order a shot one, 12" would do just to see if it lowers whatever it is behind the surface noise / electrical airborne interference just for fun, after I lowered the bluetooth slider everything was fine.

PS in the cable department I always have a ton of overlap, frankly their is no way around it due to my setup placement. It could be cleaned up a bit but will still have a ton of overlap, I am way to embarrassed to put up a pick from behind me rig.

HI, I meant to focus on the cable between turntable and the Waxwing - this cable carries the lowest signal, especially with MC cartridges. Keep it as short as possible, low capacitance (in case of MM) and coaxial.

 

[Laika2]

HI, I meant to focus on the cable between turntable and the Waxwing - this cable carries the lowest signal, especially with MC cartridges. Keep it as short as possible, low capacitance (in case of MM) and coaxial.

Yes, That the one I am talking about, maybe give a try on the optical, I can't see how I would get any "interference" with that. Seems that would be the ultimate test. Does that make sense to you>\?

Thanks for all the help.

 

[markstein]

Yes, That the one I am talking about, maybe give a try on the optical, I can't see how I would get any "interference" with that. Seems that would be the ultimate test. Does that make sense to you>\?

Thanks for all the help.

Well, I think we are talking about different things

I wanted to advise you to optimize the cabling between turntable and Waxwing input so that the preamp does not pick up any RF signals which could lead to noise.

You mean (if I understand correctly) to optimize the digital output cable not to act like an "atenna" sending out RF. I would think, if you are using a proper digital coax cable - that should not be an issue.

 

[Laika2]

Well, I think we are talking about different things

I wanted to advise you to optimize the cabling between turntable and Waxwing input so that the preamp does not pick up any RF signals which could lead to noise.

You mean (if I understand correctly) to optimize the digital output cable not to act like an "atenna" sending out RF. I would think, if you are using a proper digital coax cable - that should not be an issue.

Got ya, Thanks, I was backward. It is long and wall mounted, I would have to relocate subs, mains and 3 monoblocks to move it which would lead me to change the layout on the whole 7.4.4 speakers inducing in ceiling atmos. Right now it's Waxwing (and will be a short cable to main (not phono preamp) which has me wondering if this would make any difference, my limited knowledge tells me no but what do I know.

main preamp - short cable - waxwing - long cable - turntable
or I can move the waxwing next to the turntable for
main preamp - long cable -waxwing - short cable -turntable.

I have been listening today to the waxwing and honestly it seems to be doing fine, got my gain back to 37, had to take it down to about 32 yesterday due to the clipping light, not sure why it clipped at 35-37 yesterday but I did turn Magic off.

Thanks once again.