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The ASR Cryptocurrency thread

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julian_hughes

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Agreed. To me crypto is almost a political statement, a counterculture against our failed monetary institutions.
And actually some of our supposedly failed financial institutions have been around for hundreds of years. Hundreds! Through wars, famines, local depressions, global recessions, revolutions and witch hunts and holocausts. Because they are not rooted in desperately hoping you didn't get in too late. They are rooted in actual economic activity derived from making stuff and doing stuff! And some luck.
 

HiFidFan

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And why no goverment will allow them to exist unless they are under their control. And if they are under their control are they really any different than fiat?

Dunno. I guess we'll have to wait and see how the governments MMT experiment that is currently being conducted pans out. If not, crypto may very well be their next scheme.
 
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HiFidFan

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And actually some of our supposedly failed financial institutions have been around for hundreds of years. Hundreds! Through wars, famines, local depressions, global recessions, revolutions and witch hunts and holocausts. Because they are not rooted in desperately hoping you didn't get in too late. They are rooted in actual economic activity derived from making stuff an doing stuff! And some luck.

That's a lot to unpack there ^
 
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Chromatischism

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This leaves the possibility of crypto-tulips as potential investment assets. Again, bad idea. The only "value" they represent is the expectation that someone will be willing to pay more for them at some future time, based on the very same expectation. That can't continue forever. Sooner or later, the supply of new buyers, or shall we say marks, will dry up, and the last to enter the game will be left in the hole, having financed the winnings of everybody who came before them. Simply put, it's a Ponzi scheme, plain and simple.
But you are also describing every stock on the market. There is a fixed supply of shares unless there is an agreement to issue more, and the person who buys at the top will likely be left holding the bag.

It was also true if you bought gold in 2011. Ouch.

This is the very nature of markets.
 

julian_hughes

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There's a lot to unpack there ^
There are a few banks 400 years old, some very big global players around 300 years old, and lots of big players 100/150/200 years old. If these are the failures that crypto is going to displace then so far I prefer the failures.
 

Chromatischism

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That is what I call optimism there. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide for your assets. They all become BTC in time. Yet what is its value?
Its value is in its unique combination of properties and in its network. If Bitcoin did not have the properties that it does, or if it did not have the network that it does, it would be worthless.

My 0.02
 

HiFidFan

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There are a few banks 400 years old, some very big global players around 300 years old, and lots of big players 100/150/200 years old. If these are the failures that crypto is going to displace then so far I prefer the failures.

I'm not sure what banks you are referring too, but do they control monetary policy?
 

julian_hughes

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But you are also describing every stock on the market. There is a fixed supply of shares unless there is an agreement to issue more, and the person who buys at the top will likely be left holding the bag.

It was also true if you bought gold in 2011. Ouch.

This is the very nature of markets.
stocks are in real entities making real products or offering real services that people and companies and governments want to buy. You can assess them on the basis of actual real world demand/profitability/assets/decisions/positions. I'll repeat: "making real products or offering real services that people and companies and governments want to buy." Now, where does cryptocurrency differ? I can't answer own rhetorical question as am laughing too hard.
 

Chromatischism

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stocks are in real entities making real products or offering real services that people and companies and governments want to buy. You can assess them on the basis of actual real world demand/profitability/assets/decisions/positions. I'll repeat: "making real products or offering real services that people and companies and governments want to buy." Now, where does cryptocurrency differ? I can't answer own rhetorical question as am laughing too hard.
Did you forget that I already provided you two examples of this?
 

Blumlein 88

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Dunno. I guess we'll have to wait and see how the governments MMT experiment that is currently being conducted pans out. If not, crypto may very well be their next scheme.
I think we know how MMT works out. Like most fairy tales applied to the real world.
 

HiFidFan

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You mean like the Bank of England?

Ah, yes, you refer to "central" banks.

At any rate, central banks have been in trouble in the past, almost with dire consequences for the whole system. But nothing a few billion/trillion of fiat printed out of thin air could not solve.
 

julian_hughes

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Did you forget that I already provided you two examples of this?
I don't think you did. You proposed that paying people to code more cryptocurrencies or related tools/facilities demonstrated that cryptocurrency is as rooted in regular economic activity as normal currency. I laughed. I laugh once more. Thank you. More credible example please:
 

julian_hughes

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Ah, yes, you refer to "central" banks.

At any rate, central banks have been in trouble in the past, almost with dire consequences for the whole system. But nothing a few billion/trillion of fiat printed out of thin air could not solve.
Yes, but can you remind me when the Bank of England went bust? Or how about the Sveriges riksbank? I think they may have existed for a little longer than 13 years and are trusted enough that their bonds are rather good. Excuse me, when I said "rather good" that was English understatement.
 

HiFidFan

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Yes, but can you remind me when the Bank of England went bust? Or how about the Sveriges riksbank? I think they may have existed for a little longer than 13 years and are trusted enough that their bonds are rather good. Excuse me, when I said "rather good" that was English understatement.

Oh yes, central banks have been around for a relatively long time, I don't think anyone disputes that fact.
 

Chromatischism

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I don't think you did. You proposed that paying people to code more cryptocurrencies or related tools/facilities demonstrated that cryptocurrency is as rooted in regular economic activity as normal currency. I laughed. I laugh once more. Thank you. More credible example please:
You can laugh all you want but all it shows is that you don't understand software development. Investing in something like Polkadot or Solana (the two examples that I gave yet there are many others) is no different than investing in a software company. These people are doing exactly what you said: building something that others use and find value in.
 

julian_hughes

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Oh yes, central banks have been around for a relatively long time, I don't think anyone disputes that fact.
So have regular merchant banks/consumer banks and savings banks. And they deal with real money for normal people who are on a wage or a salary. And they deal with businesses from the tiniest to the global. They are not infallible but also they are regulated and are usually not idiots If you don't like them you can go elsewhere. And those older ones have retained the confidence of people and businesses and governments for centuries. Centuries. Think about that. People use them precisely because they are not a wild gamble. And we invest in real businesses because we can see their track record or maybe we are brave and will risk something. But it is all rooted in real economic activity. Making stuff! Doing stuff!
 

HiFidFan

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So have regular merchant banks/consumer banks and savings banks. And they deal with real money for normal people who are on a wage or a salary. And they deal with businesses from the tiniest to the global. They are not infallible but also they are regulated and are usually not idiots If you don't like them you can go elsewhere. And those older ones have retained the confidence of people and businesses and governments for centuries. Centuries. Think about that. People use them precisely because they are not a wild gamble. And we invest in real businesses because we can see their track record or maybe we are brave and will risk something. But it is all rooted in real economic activity. Making stuff! Doing stuff!

Yes my friend, let's stipulate that you and I agree that many banks have been around for a relatively long time.
 
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