• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Tekton M-Lore Speaker Review

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 282 59.0%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 174 36.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 15 3.1%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 7 1.5%

  • Total voters
    478

Bryguy

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2023
Messages
51
Likes
97
What hoisting? I put it on a very short (foot or less) stand. There is no manual on company website. And I did not get one with the speaker.
Yeah, I just noticed that myself. I went looking for a manual and couldn't find one. Strange. Anyways. It might be a good idea to request the manual alongside the speakers in future, not that the M Lore manual probably says anything about listening axis.

Another thing.. I don't see the M Lore anywhere on the Tekton site. When did that happen? (Apologies if this has been mentioned already)
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,739
Likes
241,945
Location
Seattle Area
I routinely look for speaker manuals. In majority of cases they are useless. They are full of nonsense warnings and boilerplate stuff on positioning, etc. Professional monitors tend to be more useful and that is where I look for reference axis. They also tend to have specs/measurements.
 

Bryguy

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2023
Messages
51
Likes
97
I routinely look for speaker manuals. In majority of cases they are useless. They are full of nonsense warnings and boilerplate stuff on positioning, etc. Professional monitors tend to be more useful and that is where I look for reference axis. They also tend to have specs/measurements.
Fair enough
 

madrac

Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2023
Messages
74
Likes
63
Yikes..

And oop, didn't see that before. My bad
Double yikes. Perhaps he’s admitting Amir was right by calling the review slanderous but pulling the speakers? If it were my company and I stood behind the product, I’d not have pulled them, posted my measurements, or looked more deeply if my speaker did have an issue (kind of like another speaker manufacturer did when there were discrepancies/issues noted with one of his products…which was “fixed”)
 

squeedle

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
98
Likes
165
If it were my company and I stood behind the product, I’d not have pulled them...
After one of his bizarre posts (either here or on YT), someone asked that question, and he replied something like "that has been my policy for 10 years". When pressed for an explanation he did not reply.
 

ampguy

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2022
Messages
307
Likes
179
Location
US
I routinely look for speaker manuals. In majority of cases they are useless. They are full of nonsense warnings and boilerplate stuff on positioning, etc. Professional monitors tend to be more useful and that is where I look for reference axis. They also tend to have specs/measurements.
Sent you my copy
 

Matt_Holland

Active Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2023
Messages
263
Likes
443
Erin's new review, taken together with @amirm 's additions to his original review, conclusively shut the door on this matter, to any honest, literate observer.

1. Amir has recalculated the M-Lore's response based on @Eric Alexander 's precise instructions for the acoustic center point (6.5" off the conventional center), and the results show no significant difference in the far-field response, just as Amir (and several other members) had predicted.

2. Erin has remeasured the Troubadour with the official feet screwed into the holes (the through-holes :facepalm: ), and the impedance bump Erin mentioned is still present, at the identical frequency and magnitude:

View attachment 363273

3. Erin discovered that if he turns the speaker upside-down, placing the top on a flat, rigid surface, the bump disappears - meaning the bump was almost certainly produced by a cabinet resonance just as Erin stated in his original review. So Eric Alexander was wrong about the impact the feet would have on the impedance bump measurement, and he was wrong about the underlying question of whether the feet were the cause of the impedance bump.

4. Erin's new frequency response measurement of the Troubador using Tekton's recommended acoustical center varies from his original measurement in the key lower treble area in a way that looks pretty much exactly like Amir's recalculation of his M-Lore Klippel data using that same Tekton center point. And the new response in both cases differs by just fractions of a dB in most places. Repeatability of results = conclusive. Also, Erin notes that his original subjective review focused on the Troubador being a little hot in a broad area around 4kHz and a bit attenuated in the higher treble. The new measurements show that the treble is a little less attenuated above 12kHz - but they also show the single largest difference - an almost 2dB increase in the "hot" area between 4-5kHz. So the overall audible effect is either identical with the "correct" acoustic center, or even slightly worse because of the expansion of the higher-amplitude "hot" range around 4-5kHz.

5. Likewise, Erin also compared the frequency response measurement of feet vs no-feet using Tekton's preferred acoustic center point. It shows zero difference from about 180Hz upward, and just as with the previous item, from 180Hz downward the differences are quite small and a mixed bag when it comes to better/worse. With the feet, you get about 0.5-1dB more bass SPL from 40-60Hz. On the other hand, without the feet you get about 0.5-1dB less shelving - aka more bass - across a broader range, about 60-120Hz. So again, no real difference and without the feet arguably gives you slightly more audible bass benefit on balance (especially because Erin's distortion measurements show no significant change in distortion, so that slightly increased bass region without the feet should sound no more or less "clean" than with).

View attachment 363277


6. The differences are sufficiently inconsequential that Erin has inserted his original subjective portion of his review from the last video, unaltered, in this new review, because none of the changes impacted his listening impressions. I think this also conclusively answers the question of whether or not Eric Alexander's intimidation tactics might have cowed Erin into being gentler or pulling his punches in his evaluation - not one bit. (Not to mention that his original evaluation wasn't even negative!).

7. Finally, Erin has posted screenshots of the emails, in my view clearly demonstrating the inconsistency of @Eric Alexander 's behavior, the unrealistic time demands he tried to make of Erin (asking him to respond literally within minutes), and the untenability of his YouTube video claim that he was not trying to threaten anyone with legal action. Erin also notes that he never wants to hear about Tekton again.

@Eric Alexander , as far as this particular controversy goes, you're done: your claims about the measurements have been disproven - most notably, your claim that Erin created a "false narrative" by attributing the impedance bump to a cabinet resonance and not the absence of the feet, has been totally debunked. So you are the only one who has created a false narrative, defaming Erin's and Amir's measurements and falsely impugning their credibility and integrity as reviewers. From the information available to us in the public, you have also failed to follow through on your statement that you would provide your own measurements, and the disparity between your claims about your tactics and behavior in your YouTube videos and your evident behavior and tactics in the emails Amir and Erin have shared, are on the internet for everyone to see and judge for themselves. You haven't just burned a bridge - you've napalmed it.

I'm just some guy on the internet, but for what it's worth I suggest you take a step back and reflect at some length and depth on your actions here. One thing that seems clear is that you made the oldest "audiophile" error in the book: you made absolute factual assertions about measurable and audible impacts of certain design features (feet) and listening modifications (acoustic center) based on sound acoustic principles, but without any knowledge of how large or small the actual impact of those principles would be. Audiophiles do this all the time - they dismiss measurements and instead take the word of someone they trust because of their engineering knowledge and/or their "ears." It's the classic Argument from Authority rhetorical fallacy. The only difference in this case is that you argued from your own authority.

@MattHooper is wise in the above comment - it's not easy being a human being, and so I am not saying this with relish or joy. But in my view it's quite clear that you have no one but yourself to blame for where this situation has gotten.
This is a terrific summing up. Well done, Judge.
 

Bryguy

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2023
Messages
51
Likes
97
I'm a bit lost at the point you're trying to make. I genuinely believe Amir attempted to make that speaker sound its best
I meant that in this case, assuming the tweeter was the reference axis turned out to be pretty inconsequential, but I still regard it as a mistake because it was not the intended listening position. I have nothing against deviating from the intended listening position, especially if it improves the sound, but it's still a deviation, and should be referred to as such. In this case that deviation meant basically nothing, but I think it's important to establish the "correct" listening axis, because in some cases it might actually make a substantial difference
 
Last edited:

ampguy

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2022
Messages
307
Likes
179
Location
US
Perhaps these are loss leaders to try to get users interested in the brand. Another company Zu, had a low end woofer on top speaker they would only sell on certain weekends during a year, also in Utah, I have never heard the Zus
 

TimVG

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 16, 2019
Messages
1,201
Likes
2,652
I meant that in this case, assuming the tweeter was the reference axis turned out to be pretty inconsequential, but I still regard it as a mistake because it was not the intended listening position. I have nothing against deviating from the intended listening position, especially if it improves the sound, but it's still a deviation, and should be referred to as such. In this case that deviation meant basically nothing, but I think it's important to establish the "correct" listening axis, because in some cases it might actually make a substantial difference

I believe though since in this case the listening axis wasn't specified beforehand, Amir simply relied on the measurements to determine it.. as it turns out the specified axis performs worse than what was initially used. Whenever available I believe Amir always uses the specified axis, even if it is technically worse. The Genelec 8030 for example measureses better at -10°, but that was not the specified axis by the manufacturer.
 

Illko

New Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2024
Messages
2
Likes
32
He posted one remaining pair for sale along with some slanderous nonsense:
https://tektondesign.com/product/specials/mini-lore-pair/
Screenshot_20240413-101817_Chrome.jpg
first post here, but had to post. Below the m lore speaker is this beauty!! Check the whiteboard hahahaha!
 

Bryguy

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2023
Messages
51
Likes
97
I believe though since in this case the listening axis wasn't specified beforehand, Amir simply relied on the measurements to determine it.. as it turns out the specified axis performs worse than what was initially used. Whenever available I believe Amir always uses the specified axis, even if it is technically worse. The Genelec 8030 for example measureses better at -10°, but that was not the specified axis by the manufacturer.
That is fair. You're right; Amir acted reasonably. Still, it seems like a slippery slope to me, but perhaps the fault lies more in the manufacturers for not providing enough information, in the instances that they don't. As a reviewer, I think it would be a good idea to reach out to the manufacturer when the documentation they provide is not specific enough, especially for a reviewer with such a strong focus on objective data. After all, these manuals are targeted at average consumers. They're not instruction manuals for taking anechoic measurements. All this being said, it is completely unreasonable to throw a hissy fit, as Mr. Alexander did, when people work with the information they're provided to formulate their reviews. None of what I'm saying here is meant to defend the way he has handled this.
View attachment 363422first post here, but had to post. Below the m lore speaker is this beauty!! Check the whiteboard hahahaha!
Good eye. That is hilarious, even moreso that incident is spelled wrong
 
Last edited:

Zimmerframe

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2024
Messages
13
Likes
26
Location
France
Good eye. That is hilarious, even moreso that incident is spelled wrong
It could be written in Latin ?

That would answer a lot of questions. Most of the EA communication doesn't appear to be in concise English or follow many of the normal rules/norms of communication.

This whole "episode" might be translation miss understanding if the default language at Tekton is Latin.

1712998103278.png


>>

1712998133219.png
 

Bryguy

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2023
Messages
51
Likes
97
It could be written in Latin ?

That would answer a lot of questions. Most of the EA communication doesn't appear to be in concise English or follow many of the normal rules/norms of communication.

This whole "episode" might be translation miss understanding if the default language at Tekton is Latin.

View attachment 363425

>>

View attachment 363426
Hahaha

Hmm.. maybe this is all a big misunderstanding. Does litigate mean "give you a big hug" in Latin?
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,739
Likes
241,945
Location
Seattle Area
As a reviewer, I think it would be a good idea to reach out to the manufacturer when the documentation they provide is not specific enough, especially for a reviewer with such a strong focus on objective data.
Once more... as I explained to Eric, in far field listening it makes no difference if the center is the tweeter vs woofer when they are next to each other. If it did matter, it is a broken design to have such sensitivity to smallest angles like this. You are not going to sit there with your head in a vise at precise alignment to anything.
 
Top Bottom