Tekton M-Lore Speaker Review

[prerich]

Other similarly measuring speakers don't have the owner coming in here blasting the validity of decades of research that constitutes modern day gold standard in speaker design. Nor do they claim that the measurements made here are botched, discrediting others. Nor claim that a flat anechoic FR speaker is as easy as "3 seconds" of simulation software and then sprinkles vague, make-believe science and disappears.

The insult to the universal truth of science and scientific method is one of the high crimes here.

Well...in the words of Rasheed Wallace "Ball don't lie".

 

[prerich]

Other similarly measuring speakers don't have the owner coming in here blasting the validity of decades of research that constitutes modern day gold standard in speaker design. Nor do they claim that the measurements made here are botched, discrediting others. Nor claim that a flat anechoic FR speaker is as easy as "3 seconds" of simulation software and then sprinkles vague, make-believe science and disappears.

The insult to the universal truth of science and scientific method is one of the high crimes here.

I just looked the referenced post...I didn't say "similarly measured speakers get less hate here"....that's someone else's post.

 

[RobL]

I just looked the referenced post...I didn't say "similarly measured speakers get less hate here"....that's someone else's post.

Yes, that was me, lol.

Other similarly measuring speakers don't have the owner coming in here blasting the validity of decades of research that constitutes modern day gold standard in speaker design. Nor do they claim that the measurements made here are botched, discrediting others. Nor claim that a flat anechoic FR speaker is as easy as "3 seconds" of simulation software and then sprinkles vague, make-believe science and disappears.

The insult to the universal truth of science and scientific method is one of the high crimes here.

Yes, well if this place is all about objectivity, let’s remain objective and assess the speaker in question on it’s measurements, not some perceived slight by it’s creator (who arguably has a right to be here as well). Throwing around terms like “con artist” seems a little hysterical to me.

 

[Sonny1]

These were far from good but somehow better than I expected.

 

[CleanSound]

I just looked the referenced post...I didn't say "similarly measured speakers get less hate here"....that's someone else's post.

My bad, issue with replying.

Yes, well if this place is all about objectivity, let’s remain objective and assess the speaker in question on it’s measurements, not some perceived slight by it’s creator (who arguably has a right to be here as well). Throwing around terms like “con artist” seems a little hysterical to me.

The data from the measurement are objective, Mr. Alexander is saying that the objective data is "botched" and the scientific method and interpretation of the data are fundamentally wrong; essentially attacking the expose by way of discrediting fundamental facts and data.

OK, we are willing to entertain that decades of research done by Dr. Toole and his associates (who holds PhDs and Masters in engineering and physics btw) are somehow grossly wrong. But Mr. Alexander provides no logical, scientific, technical, factual, rationale or reasoned explanation on any of his claims or statements, even when asked multiple times. Hence, it leaves no entry point for an intellectual discussion, let alone scrutiny by subject matter experts.

Mr. Alexander refuses to engage in any form of logical, scientific, technical, factual, rationale nor reasoned discussion; instead he retorts to sprinkling in vague, make-believe science and refers to testimonials and "accolades" by the naive, uneducated and unwashed as solid prove on how great his products are.

The above in bold are the standard, textbook MO of a con artist.

Furthermore, Mr. Alexander exhibits extreme confidence ("3 seconds" to make a flat anechoic FR speaker, can make some "drool and slobber"), which is the underlying hallmark characteristics of all confidence artists.

Sorry, it quacks like a duck, it walks like a duck, it looks like a duck. . .I'm going to call it a duck.

 

[CleanSound]

I know folks want to dismiss the multi-tweeter array, but it makes sense that the "ring" of tweeters is used as a midrange driver and the single tweeter in the center is the actual high frequency driver. The whole combo acts kind of like a coax driver. The advantage of the ring of tweeters is that power handling for a tweeter is compromised at mid range frequencies, so the array allows tweeters to be used at lower frequencies than is typical because they are able to all share an attenuated portion of the audio signal.

I don't own any of Eric's speakers, but thought I would throw this in to the lions den here .

I'd be interested in seeing some of his speakers with the quai-coax measured. Even Genelec is using a quai-coax in one of their top of the line speakers.

The idea of using tweeter sized transducers for mid-range is not exclusive to Tekton. Perlisten (which I own a pair myself), the new Monitor Audio Hyphn, and that new Genelec full tower as mentioned also uses tweeter sized transducers for mid range.

However, according to Mr. Alexander's patent, the reason for using an array of tweeter sized transducers for mid-range is such that he can match the moving mass of the transducer to the instruments moving part and somehow it magically will make overtone sound better (as if overtone is the most crucial element in sound reproduction). That is not the reason other manufacturers cites, it appears, perhaps at least Perlisten does this because it has something to do with summing.

Mr. Alexander needs to do an one-on-one, sit down discussion about his patent and Tekton's design decision/theories instead of attacking the credibility of this scientific measurement on his speakers.

 

[AdamG]

We are not discussing a patent or tweeter array. Start a new thread to take this off topic conversation. This is a review thread and we need to keep the conversation rooted in the product reviewed and the test results.

Please and thank you for your cooperation and understanding.

 

[CleanSound]

I will call it now with this guy [Eric Alexander, owner and chief speaker designer of Tekton], that's how confident I am with my con-artist radar:
(1) he will sparingly sprinkle in remotely plausible but very vague "science" to fool the naive, but will never divulge any technical nor logical rationale/reasoning to his design decisions/theories, because it's all based on make-believe science
(2) he will not engage in technical discussions or discussions with any substance, because he is not versed in the science of loud speaker design and it will further expose him
(3) he will result to customer testimonials and subjective reviewers' awards as prove and evidence of the validity of his speakers
(4) he will never ever send any of his speakers to any reviewers who has a technical background or will approach the review with scientific methods and industrial measurement tools, except for that one mistake he made when he sent his speakers to Stereophile, where they did an quasi anechoic measurement on it.
(5) he will eventually fizzle out on this forum and then go to his naive base and claim that the members of ASR don't know what they are talking about and that they are all about "rigid science" who listens with measurement tools and are completely unreasonable where he is viscously attacked.

These are the standard protocols of damage control and containment with all con-artists.

After @Eric Alexander burst into the scene refuting and rebutting science, data and scientific methods, this community (some who are skeptics and some who are customers and fans) asked Mr. Alexander to engage this community in a fruitful discussion with substance, logical rationale, reasoning and explanation rather than just obscure claims.

But after many days of radio silence, I think we all can agree that Mr. Alexander came here with bad faith and has no intention of discussing the merits of his speaker design.

I'm afraid that my early call above was indeed correct.

 

[RobL]

.

I'm afraid that my early call above was indeed correct.

Yeah, we sure showed him!

 

[CleanSound]

Yeah, we sure showed him!

I think he showed himself by not showing up with real any real substance. I never understand why some people think that they can easily fooled other with technobabble and a display of confidence but no substance.

 

[GabrielPhoto]

I think he showed himself by not showing up with real any real substance. I never understand why some people think that they can easily fooled other with technobabble and a display of confidence but no substance.

Based on conversations I had before with him, I am NOT surprised LOL

 

[lordhumungous]

I have a pair of Tekton speakers and what concerns me is the spec of 97-98 db sensitivity. I don't think mine are at that level though the spec states that sensitivity level.

I have no way to prove this as i dont have the equipment to do the test so it's just an assumption.

Didn't Amir or someone else test the Lore's and find the sensitivity to be way lower than the spec?

 

[voodooless]

Didn't Amir or someone else test the Lore's a find the sensitive to be way lower than the spec?

See page 1. It shows about 88dB @ 2.83V/1m, where the spec is 95 dB @ 1W/1m. Given that it’s an 8 Ohm speaker these specs are comparable. So yes, the it’s about 7 dB short, or about 5x more power needed for the same SPL.

 

[mj30250]

I have a pair of Tekton speakers and what concerns me is the spec of 97-98 db sensitivity. I don't think mine are at that level though the spec states that sensitivity level.

I have no way to prove this as i dont have the equipment to do the test so it's just an assumption.

Didn't Amir or someone else test the Lore's and find the sensitivity to be way lower than the spec?

Well according to the first post the M-Lore's average anechoic sensitivity is around 88/89dB versus Tekton's claim of 95dB. Some companies will advertise an expected "in-room" sensitivity but a 6-7dB jump from anechoic would be extremely generous.

 

[lordhumungous]

See page 1. It shows about 88dB @ 2.83V/1m, where the spec is 95 dB @ 1W/1m. Given that it’s an 8 Ohm speaker these specs are comparable. So yes, the it’s about 7 dB short, or about 5x more power needed for the same SPL.

Well i put a low powered amp on the Tekton's I own and i was shocked at how little i could get from these speakers.

People do make speaker buying decisions partly or wholly based on sensitivity.

 

[mhardy6647]

See page 1. It shows about 88dB @ 2.83V/1m, where the spec is 95 dB @ 1W/1m. Given that it’s an 8 Ohm speaker these specs are comparable. So yes, the it’s about 7 dB short, or about 5x more power needed for the same SPL.

2.83 V into 8 ohms is 1 watt (it's 2 watts into 4 ohms).
My guess would be the disparity reflects (no pun intended) a quasi-anechoic measurement of sensitivity vs. a reverberant field assessment. At least, that was always Klipsch's excuse!

The Klipsch's specified sensitivity is an extraordinarily high 96dB/2.83V/m. My estimate was much lower, at 89.6dB(B)/2.83V/m, though this is still higher than is typical for a small two-way speaker....

Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-600M loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

A Klipsch employee's explanation (FWIW, and for better or for worse) at:

Speaker sensitivity

Just curious about speaker sensitivity ratings. I think I have an idea, but how is sensitivity measured?

community.klipsch.com

 

[CleanSound]

I have a pair of Tekton speakers and what concerns me is the spec of 97-98 db sensitivity. I don't think mine are at that level though the spec states that sensitivity level.

I have no way to prove this as i dont have the equipment to do the test so it's just an assumption.

Didn't Amir or someone else test the Lore's and find the sensitivity to be way lower than the spec?

Stereophile's test also yield the same results.

There was a video floating around with Mr. Alexander claiming the use of tweeters for mid range gives his speakers excellent sensitivity. Clearly the two Tekton measurements that we know of (this one and the one on Stereophile) clearly shows otherwise.

 

[lewdish]

Curious if this is a response to the review Introducing the Tekton Design Lore Signature (youtube.com) maybe they improved some things

 

[CleanSound]

Well, let's see if he is willing to send a pair to he reviewed by Amir or @hardisj

 

[ahofer]

I haven't seen any suggestion of the "drool and slobber" speaker we were promised.