Stereophile and Audio Cables

[SIY]

why silver sound different vs copper? what reason?

Human imagination, an infinitely complex variable.

 

[SIY]

Because copper is a heavy metal and silver is not.

Because a copper will take you to jail and Silver is a well-trained horse.

 

[Ahmonge]

why silver sound different vs copper? what reason?

Probably visual cues. Warm for copper, cold for silver.

 

[Julf]

why silver sound different vs copper? what reason?

There is a term in psychology (that I can't remember right now) where we project totally unrelated but superficially similar traits - so if silver is optically shinier than copper, we also easily believe the sound is brighter and more shiny.

 

[EERecordist]

I studied EE with an early focus on analog electronics for audio, later RF and digital.

Cables have very few variables, they are measurable. Anything beyond those variables does not exist, except as placebo*. If people want to engage in that it is not my mission in life to intervene.

Cable variables are DC resistance, inductance, capacitance, and shielding. RLC can be measured with reasonably priced test equipment. The better shielding and the fewer electromagnetic fields the better. Cable can be tested for electromagnetic field susceptibility, but the most effective solution for electromagnetic interference on cables is a filter on the destination, which can be as simple as a ferrite bead. You want to squelch the RF before it can be down-tuned to the audible range in the destination.

Cable-maker Belden publishes their specs. I buy house brand terminated cables, Best Buy or Amazon. #10 zip cord for speakers banana terminated, and because I was near a broadcast station which caused speaker interference I used some #18 foil shielded twisted pair I had on hand since high school for my mains. I'm about to start experimenting with Ethernet-speced CAT8 cable. It is 4 shielded twisted pair #22. You have to work out grounding and termination. Dave Rat, who is a highly respected in the industry live sound person, has been discussing and testing CAT8 to move audio signals around large venues.

*In medicine the placebo effect actually has efficacy because it is theorized as a signal the immune system.

 

[SIY]

There is a term in psychology (that I can't remember right now) where we project totally unrelated but superficially similar traits - so if silver is optically shinier than copper, we also easily believe the sound is brighter and more shiny.

Synesthesia?

 

[Sokel]

At some point we have to admit it's not only user-error falling into traps.

See the wording Purifi uses for example:

(Link)

Now get in the shoes of the average non-technical user and tell me what news will spread reading this.

 

[Julf]

Even educated people who have worked with hifi for a long time and therefore fully realise that what they hear is problematic according to known science, but they experience it anyway, even in blind tests.

Can you point us to any proper, supervised and verified (double)blind tests?

 

[AaronJ]

There is a term in psychology (that I can't remember right now) where we project totally unrelated but superficially similar traits - so if silver is optically shinier than copper, we also easily believe the sound is brighter and more shiny.

I think Paul McGowan did a video about cables in conduits or something and said he has a friend who swears that when his AC cables were in galvanized steel conduit that the sound was constrained or something stupid like that, and now that they're in PVC the sound is much smoother.

 

[Blumlein 88]

No, but it's probably out there somewhere, iamong all the tests that have already been done,
All it takes is one person to hear sound differences with certainty and it's a reality.

The tests I've been involved in have been a kind of entertainment , it wasn't documented.
But the test always confirmed that there are sound differences that match my own and others' experience of what makes the best hifi.

Of course, if you want to work seriously, you don't use blind tests that only cloud the result and end up in the lowest common denominator, and who wants that, not me?

The argument for using blind tests is that it is oh... so scientific, it is absolutely not a scientific proof, the result is tied to the abilities of the listeners involved, the hi-fi system used and music selection and many other variables.

The thread is about cables and their importance, I can give one advice, if you can't hear a cable change, then change all cables including power cables from the cheapest you can imagine but which still meet the electrical requirements to high-end cables, and I'm sure everyone can hear it. this is actually why many people change their cables, and typically not just one cable.

Oops, and suddenly there was one less member on ASR, obviously we can't have anyone here deviating so violently from the religion that the holy parameter SINAD and the AP analyzer has all the answers.

Let me also mention that this problem is not just about cables, but with cables everyone can participate, switch and test etc.

The problem concerns all passive and active components and materials, which makes it very comprehensive and complex
If the cable riddle is solved, the cause of different sound signatures from capacitors, resistors etc. is probably also solved.

So you missed when it was solved? Good, you are in the right place. Maybe read up some more on science.

 

[Julf]

The argument for using blind tests is that it is oh... so scientific, it is absolutely not a scientific proof, the result is tied to the abilities of the listeners involved, the hi-fi system used and music selection and many other variables.

So introducing even more uncontrolled variables makes it more scientific?

I call BS, as in ITU Broadcasting Service standard BS.1116 : Methods for the subjective assessment of small impairments in audio systems.
Proper, controlled (as in double blind) listening tests are the best scientific tests we have - unless the science you are interested in is psychology.

 

[pma]

Mogami showed no resistance and Cordial (not terminated any more) showed some mega-Ohms between hot and cold but went down to (several) K Ohm between shield and hot.

Carbon intentionally added into the insulation?

 

[HQY]

According to my experience, different cables sound differently. I would like to try different cables and pick up those make my system sound better. The right cables do not have to be expensive. But most of my cables are not cheap.

 

[DonR]

According to my experience, different cables sound differently. I would like to try different cables and pick up those make my system sound better. The right cables do not have to be expensive. But most of my cables are not cheap.

How do you control for bias in your listening tests?

 

[Mnyb]

How do you control for bias in your listening tests?

… or that the sound waves actually are different, which they are not .

 

[egellings]

Because copper is a heavy metal and silver is not.

Atomic mas of copper (Cu) is 63.6U; atomic mass of silver (Ag) is107.9U. Silver is quite a bit more massive than copper.

 

[theREALdotnet]

At some point we have to admit it's not only user-error falling into traps.

See the wording Purifi uses for example:


View attachment 371703

I think there is a tiny spark of truth this. It’s not that bi-wiring doubles the cable cross-section (one could simply use a thicker cable instead), but that it doubles the number of connection terminals. I’m convinced that the most significant contributor to speaker cable resistance is the termination, unless we’re talking dozens of meters of cable. Hence, bi-wiring would on average halve that resistance. Then again, one could simply apply better and properly engineered termination.

 

[HQY]

I ask my wife and daughter to listen to verify my feelings. They are not audiophiles and don’t know what changed cause the difference in sound.

 

[Sokel]

I think there is a tiny spark of truth this. It’s not that bi-wiring doubles the cable cross-section (one could simply use a thicker cable instead), but that it doubles the number of connection terminals. I’m convinced that the most significant contributor to speaker cable resistance is the termination, unless we’re talking dozens of meters of cable. Hence, bi-wiring would on average halve that resistance. Then again, one could simply apply better and properly engineered termination.

I guess no one is immune to marketing.People buy stories after all.

They are talking about biwiring and bi-amping and degrees of isolation,etc.
Never heard that before.

 

[Julf]

I ask my wife and daughter to listen to verify my feelings. They are not audiophiles and don’t know what changed cause the difference in sound.

So are you saying your wife and daughter can't read you at all?

Do you know why we insist on double (not just single) blind testing?

Even horses can do it: Clever Hans