Stereophile and Audio Cables

[Andysu]

Sometimes their really is a difference!
Back in the day I bought a pair of the affordable Kimber PBJ cables after rave glowing reviews in Stereophile and most everywhere. They did sound different, the unshielded design induced a loud hum into output of my VTL tube amps and
were completely unusable. The only good news was I tossed them in a box for 20 some years and one day on a lark I put them up for auction on ebay. They sold for more than I paid. LOL

sold more than 20 no years ago , that is so true

 

[Platypus20]

I've got an exit strategy for them, and a few here too.
View attachment 357722

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[WillBrink]

Third paragraph was as far as I could go.

Sorry.

That was as far as I could make it:

"I tried those top-shelf silver cables with middle- and bottom-shelf components and discovered that their effect was pretty negligible with the bottom-row stuff but sometimes dramatically effective at upping the excitement factor of midlevel components. As a result, I have no qualms about using $4000 interconnects with a $2000 integrated amplifier."

 

[Sal1950]

Similar to

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Works for me.

 

[MattHooper]

I think this has a big germ of truth in that this means there are two kinds of people in our hobby: Engineering types and non-engineering types. And never the twain shall be able to talk to each other.

Hi. I’m a non-engineering type. Pleased to meet you.

I generally rely on engineering types to vet technical claims about gear. As well as answer questions in areas where I lack competency. It’s been a long, valuable relationship, which has allowed me to avoid some of the more woo aspects of the hobby.

You can see from comments under Amir‘s YouTube videos that plenty of non-engineering types appreciate the information Amir is providing.

 

[HammersRocco]

Is there a way to multi-quote in this forum? Maybe I am a dummy, but haven't found a way

That said, so I think the talk about intuition is KEY - hopefully people haven't noticed, but it is one of the things I am constantly and repetitively posting! ( I do apologize - but I think is important )

I am constantly warning people about their intuition. Our human intuition told us the Earth was flat and that the Sun revolved around it. And people's intuition tells them their very fallible human perception is an accurate model of the real world.

I have tried to internalize that and constantly fight against my intuition. At least I hope I do. But the problem I see, not only regarding audio but many areas of human endeavour. It's hard to get people to accept their intuition might be deceiving them.

One example I experienced outside audio, was a talk about High Performance Chess with someone. I was talking to this person that knew nothing about that world. So to him, even with Chess at the highest level, players just sat down and played. Because, that's intuitive. I tried to explain the preparation that goes in to those matches... to no avail. I just could not override his intuition with information. Guy just did not believe me and argued that it did not made sense!

And that is just your intuition alone! Put together a $3000 1m cable, intuition and the catalog of biases we humans are normally subjected to. THERE IS NO WAY you are going to convince that person their intuition is deceiving them.

So what do we do? Hard, right? We talk about it here. We go out and express that in other forums and are told we are trolls, "not open" or sometimes even ignorant!

I try and fight it because, well, audio and chess are innocuous. But is a malady that affects the current world... and it manifests also related to serious stuff. The hope is that if those people understand that they have to seek knowledge before trusting their intuition somehow will spill over from audio into other aspects.


But how likely is that? So here we are preaching to the converted because quite frankly, well, it won't happen

All IMHO, of course

 

[SIY]

chess are innocuous

Not the way I play it.

 

[Miguelón]

I don’t understand the reason that push an audiophile to pursuit the “perfect sound” as it appears to be some impossible thing.

If I can imagine that exists, will be a perfect linear speaker with 0 SINAD and infinite max SPL in an anechoic chamber. I don’t know this will give me kind of climax auditive experience, but surely not.

For me the problem of audiophilia is that is more “sound focused” than “music focused”. I’m more on the Epicurean path on the music side, audio gear is the physical thing to enjoy the recording, so I can expend some energy on the audio stuff to let me enjoy the music.

At the end is music that maters, and I think that it can be perceived in a number of ways (given a concrete recording). Spending so much time, money and energy on the physical aspect one can put obstacles on the enjoying process of listening, turning in into a supercritical state of mind instead the “mindfulness” one that is supposed to be the best way to music perception.

 

[Sal1950]

Is there a way to multi-quote in this forum? Maybe I am a dummy, but haven't found a way

Multi quote, it's easy.
You could click on Rely for each of the posts and then type a reply.

Or click Reply for an individual post, reply to it but don't click Post
Then click on the next post you wish to address which will be inserted at the bottom
Then reply to it.
Easy Peasy

 

[MattHooper]

For me the problem of audiophilia is that is more “sound focused” than “music focused”. I’m more on the Epicurean path on the music side, audio gear is the physical thing to enjoy the recording, so I can expend some energy on the audio stuff to let me enjoy the music.

At the end is music that maters, and I think that it can be perceived in a number of ways (given a concrete recording). Spending so much time, money and energy on the physical aspect one can put obstacles on the enjoying process of listening, turning in into a supercritical state of mind instead the “mindfulness” one that is supposed to be the best way to music perception.

The average music lover can probably lead you on an even more pure epicurean path: most of them don’t care nearly as much about the equipment as most here do or likely yourself.

My wife and kids, love music, but they put virtually no thought into the gear on which they listen to music. They are perfectly happy playing through their laptop speakers, or earbuds.

 

[Sokel]

I had an interesting conversation about cables with an RF guy and I want to ask:
Is there any accepted resistance between two open conductors measured as shown at the following example? :

(forget about twisting,coaxial,2 or 3 wires,etc,just cables side by side as in an audio connecting cable like RCA or XLR )

 

[DonR]

I had an interesting conversation about cables with an RF guy and I want to ask:
Is there any accepted resistance between two open conductors measured as shown at the following example? :



View attachment 371572


(forget about twisting,coaxial,2 or 3 wires,etc,just cables side by side as in an audio connecting cable like RCA or XLR )

Resistance will depend on the resistance of the insulation material and distance. Probably in the multi-megohms for most cases. For bare wire, it is somewhere around 5T ohm/m IIRC although this changes with a changing field on the wire. The impedance between the cables will depend on the dielectric properties of the insulation and the distance between the cables. It should be negligible for audio frequencies over reasonable run lengths.

 

[Sokel]

Resistance will depend on the resistance of the insulation material and distance. Probably in the multi-megohms for most cases. For bare wire, it is somewhere around 5T ohm/m IIRC although this changes with a changing field on the wire. The impedance between the cables will depend on the dielectric properties of the insulation and the distance between the cables. It should be negligible for audio frequencies over reasonable run lengths.

Thanks for the answer.
I measured a couple for fun,a mogami star quad (I usually have meters here but I measured a terminated XLR one to see) and a Cordial who I really detest after what I saw and posted here.

Mogami showed no resistance and Cordial (not terminated any more) showed some mega-Ohms between hot and cold but went down to (several) K Ohm between shield and hot.
Interesting.

 

[Miguelón]

The average music lover can probably lead you on an even more pure epicurean path: most of them don’t care nearly as much about the equipment as most here do or likely yourself.

My wife and kids, love music, but they put virtually no thought into the gear on which they listen to music. They are perfectly happy playing through their laptop speakers, or earbuds.

I’m agree, I love this superpower of not taking care of the gear and enjoying.

On the other side a good setup give you access to more emotions, it justifies an investment on gear when you love music so much.

But one should put some reasonable limits, if not we easily became obsessive or victims of marketing influence. I joined ASR looking for comprehensive and consistent guide to avoid some errors, not to find the way to the best possible setup.

I had a list of things that my new audio stuff should have and a budget limit, happily the total cost was inferior thanks to good advices here. Audiphiles sites made me crazy and totally contradict their conclusions and after some failed buys I begun reading here.

 

[theREALdotnet]

Mogami showed no resistance and Cordial (not terminated any more) showed some mega-Ohms between hot and cold but went down to (several) K Ohm between shield and hot.
Interesting.

That’s not right, there shouldn’t be kΩ between hot and shield. Some water probably got into the cable. The DC resistance between any of the conductors should be in the hundreds of MΩ or more. Or where you measuring impedance at a high-ish frequency, perhaps?

 

[JW001]

Just goes to show that often people believe personal perceptions (that of course feel totally real to the person themselves) despite their education. The first question a scientifically educated person should ask is "is there really anything to explain?" "How do I know?" "What is the evidence?".

Simply believing your senses is, as you know, pure routine, easy, predictable and straightforward, and requires no intellectual effort.

I would be hard pressed to find an electrical/electronics engineer who claims a silver or gold cable can make ANY impact on transferring audio signals. Gosh, some audiophiles claim that cheap USB cables can ruin the music!

 

[Speedskater]

Above about a half megahertz a well manufactured cable will have a Radio Frequency Characteristic Impedance. But the above pair's impedance will change depending on how tightly it is twisted.

 

[Sokel]

That’s not right, there shouldn’t be kΩ between hot and shield. Some water probably got into the cable. The DC resistance between any of the conductors should be in the hundreds of MΩ or more. Or where you measuring impedance at a high-ish frequency, perhaps?

Of course is not right.I measured it with the same DMM.
I exclude water,I keep all bulk (now that I have destroy the specific one as shown at the other post) cable in a very dry drawer.
I guess moisture can find its way in of course.

Needless to say that I now had to measure every single cable I use

 

[leonasj500]

Of course there is a difference - silver sounds clearer and sharper, copper softer and warmer. At least in sighted listening - magically the differences seem to disappear in proper double blind tests.

why silver sound different vs copper? what reason?

 

[Vacceo]

why silver sound different vs copper? what reason?

Because copper is a heavy metal and silver is not.