Stereophile and Absolute Sound Editorials

[dtaylo1066]

For the vast majority, audio is about perception not EE, design or specs. The folks on this forum are far from the majority, which makes things fun and informative here.

Due to my past profession of 30 years (recently retired), I know chemical engineers who have their Ph. D in brewing. People love beer, as do I, yet people's opinions on rating or discussing beers are almost totally subjective and rooted in passion. I believe there is a beer thread on this forum where people extol their favorite brews, which is of course lots of fun. And, with beer, you can even get a buzz!

But many of the beers people think are fantastic, when examined from a brewing, quality control, design or content analysis are not good beers at all. But because they are brewed locally (quite often by people who have no techincal training in chemistry or brewing), are dark or rich in color and have a bite of hops in them, are opined as superior. Beer is rather simple to produce, but you have a lot of former "other occupation" people brewing it who have no formal brewing education or technical expertise. Many win awards and slap each other on the back at beer festivals. Hmm, sound familiar?

When beers are put through a blind taste test, many folks outright reject the very beers they say they love (and buy) and embrace ones they say they hate, or they are not be able to differentiate at all between the beers. I have seen this occur many times. Same thing in audio. Much of the fun, for many, is the romance, the perception, the sharing, the banter and the bullshit, and is not related to specifications. They like it because they believe it "tastes" or "sounds" great. Throw in the fact that people hear and taste differently and the situation gets more complex.

A car can steer prefectly, but how do you measure the steering wheel feedback other than subjectively? What makes the BRZ better than a Miata or vice versa?

Many prefer a shit meal from McDonalds when compared to a quality, chef produced dining experience. Sugar, fat and salt win people over.

 

[Robin L]

But many of the beers people think are fantastic, when examined from a brewing, quality control, design or content analysis are not good beers at all. But because they are brewed locally (quite often by people who have no techincal training in chemistry or brewing), are dark or rich in color and have a bite of hops in them, are opined as superior. Beer is rather simple to produce, but you have a lot of former "other occupation" people brewing it who have no formal brewing education or technical expertise. Many win awards and slap each other on the back at beer festivals. Hmm, sound familiar?

When beers are put through a blind taste test, many folks outright reject the very beers they say they love (and buy) and embrace ones they say they hate, or they are not be able to differentiate at all between the beers. I have seen this occur many times. Same thing in audio. Much of the fun, for many, is the romance, the perception, the sharing, the banter and the bullshit, and is not related to specifications. They like it because they believe it "tastes" or "sounds" great. Throw in the fact that people hear and taste differently and the situation gets more complex.

You can take my Red Hook Big Ballard Imperial IPA out of my cold, dead hands:

A car can steer prefectly, but how do you measure the steering wheel feedback other than subjectively? What makes the BRZ better than a Miata or vice versa?

I say my Prius is best. [It's the one on the right]:

 

[jsrtheta]

John Atkinson if I recollect has a degree in electrical engineering.
Keith

I've never heard that. I think Aczel would have noticed.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Snip.....

A car can steer prefectly, but how do you measure the steering wheel feedback other than subjectively? What makes the BRZ better than a Miata or vice versa?

There are a couple equations that answer the steering question. They are used in design simulation quite effectively. And of course you don't have the same aims for a Miata as for a limousine.

 

[dtaylo1066]

I'd prefer to leave the beer in your hands and let you be buried or cremated that way! Good to the last drop. I wonder if Chas. Heston liked a good IPA? That beer would slake your thrist after a day of skiing that powder on your car! Did you know that Utah has the greatest snow on Earth? Even better than Steamboat's "champagne powder." And it's even better after two beers! Which is also the case with an AKM DAC chip, which has more body and bloom to its sound signature than that of an ESS. I find the ESS chips to have a little high-frequency bite to them, maybe due to too much Chinook hops in the silicon. Hmmmm.

 

[wannarock2]

I purchased the bulk of my kit via articles written by Kal Rubinson.

I am very happy

Thanks again Kal!

 

[Robin L]

I'd prefer to leave the beer in your hands and let you be buried or cremated that way! Good to the last drop. I wonder if Chas. Heston liked a good IPA? That beer would slake your thrist after a day of skiing that powder on your car! Did you know that Utah has the greatest snow on Earth? Even better than Steamboat's "champagne powder." And it's even better after two beers! Which is also the case with an AKM DAC chip, which has more body and bloom to its sound signature than that of an ESS. I find the ESS chips to have a little high-frequency bite to them, maybe due to too much Chinook hops in the silicon. Hmmmm.

I'm pretty sure the ESS chips need more salt, maybe some MSG. MSG, by the way, is not bad for you, that appears to be an urban myth.

 

[jsrtheta]

I'd prefer to leave the beer in your hands and let you be buried or cremated that way! Good to the last drop. I wonder if Chas. Heston liked a good IPA? That beer would slake your thrist after a day of skiing that powder on your car! Did you know that Utah has the greatest snow on Earth? Even better than Steamboat's "champagne powder." And it's even better after two beers! Which is also the case with an AKM DAC chip, which has more body and bloom to its sound signature than that of an ESS. I find the ESS chips to have a little high-frequency bite to them, maybe due to too much Chinook hops in the silicon. Hmmmm.

Uh-oh.

 

[jsrtheta]

1) I certainly would question his ability and knowledge of software and operating systems. At least as far as being innovative, and putting whatever he did know to good use, for the benefit of PC users. Marketing-wise, he was pretty savvy, and ruthless as hell. You can't take that from him.

2) When Csaba Csere was running the show, you had a bona fide mechanical engineer at the helm. And it showed. Also, men such as Dave Davis, Brock Yates, Don Sherman, Tony Sawn et al knew cars, inside and out. They raced cars. You could count on their opinions being backed by honest insight. So that made a difference. And in spite of 'subjective' impressions, C/D backed it up with measurements.

Editorially C/D became mostly irrelevant when they laid off/fired many of their long-time writers--men with car backgrounds, and hired Sharon Carty as editor-- a woman who knew nothing about cars and racing. No one even understood why she was hired, or if they did, they were unable to say it in public.

3) Peter Aczel was not an EE (he had a degree in physics/math), but knew that he must hire them as 'back up', in order to review his copy, and to correct any technical errors. When Peter first started out, audio was the province of the amateur--many time a mere hobbyist who learned design by trial and error. By the time of digital recording, that was no longer enough. You really needed someone who understood the theory and the math behind it all. And understood circuitry. The guy designing and selling five watt tube SETs in his basement was simply outclassed.

Peter Aczel didn't just use EEs for proofreading. He used David Rich, Ph.D., who wrote many, if not most, of the technical reviews for years. And Rich not only knew where the weeds were, he never hesitated to jump in them. Aczel also relied on people like Richard Greiner and Stanley Lipschitz and Floyd Toole and Ken Pohlman, to name just a few, for his own education and fact-checking.

He was also convinced that John Atkinson knew he was writing nonsense, but liked the money.

 

[dtaylo1066]

I'm pretty sure the ESS chips need more salt, maybe some MSG. MSG, by the way, is not bad for you, that appears to be an urban myth.

Maybe some salsa, too...chips and salsa! Of course pure corn chips, as I want no gluten in my DAC chip, as it can cause problems down low.

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

He used David Rich

Rich's description of the validity of the various topologies of circuit design at hand was a real asset to the competence of engineers involved and an objective correlation between reproduction accuracy and those methods. Poor methodology and favorable opinions still remained because… well, because.

 

[rwortman]

That theory of accelerated returns was applied to whole systems, in that upgrading one thing makes the whole system better. Still wrong but most of us apply the law of diminishing returns to single components. That holds in almost all areas.

In the same issue there was esoteric hi fi “guru” Valin talking about a high priced reel to reel. This is a quote:”…analog tapes recorded at 15/30 ips are virtually infinite in resolution; they are continuous copies of a live event, without any of the myriad of tiny “gaps” (the little “bits” of missing information0 of digital copies—the sound content of which must be filled in via the educated guesswork of your DAC”

Pure nonsense.

 

[steve59]

This hobby is about music and the reproduction thereof. I


So you say. is the rolex owner hobby to tell time, i can call bs also

 

[tomelex]

That theory of accelerated returns was applied to whole systems, in that upgrading one thing makes the whole system better. Still wrong but most of us apply the law of diminishing returns to single components. That holds in almost all areas.

In the same issue there was esoteric hi fi “guru” Valin talking about a high priced reel to reel. This is a quote:”…analog tapes recorded at 15/30 ips are virtually infinite in resolution; they are continuous copies of a live event, without any of the myriad of tiny “gaps” (the little “bits” of missing information0 of digital copies—the sound content of which must be filled in via the educated guesswork of your DAC”

Pure nonsense.

Yeah, these people do not know what tape bias is, why it is needed, and that all those little bits of magnetic domains, that switch states from one direction to the other (binary) are doing, let alone the dynamics, third orders distortion, noise, and other issues. Not to say that tape can not sound good, just that there certainly is no infinite resolution. But then again, that is why we hang around ASR, because there are folks here who know the why and the how of audio, and are not easily fooled.

 

[steve59]

again, i run into walls of people telling me what to think. yikes

 

[dtaylo1066]

We live in a post truth world, where people are proud and able to blab what they think and are willing to be told repeatedly what they want to hear. Amidst all the bullshit there are still actual facts, though sometimes personal work is required to retrieve them.

After 50 years of audiophile pursuits, I have owned and listened to vinyl, solid state, tube, CD, streaming, cassette, reel to reel and 8-track, Hi-Res Class D and DAT.

Like everyone else I have my opinions and bias. Despite what some say (not many here) the best musical reproduction I have heard is through a DAC. From the silent background to the dynamics, I do not believe other formats come close. Not they they are bad. I think I have heard the difference between hi-res and redbook, but would not bet the farm that is a scientific fact, but I am OK thinking that there can be a delta.

I have lots of vinyl. It sounds OK on my $500 turntable, but the pops, clicks and dynamics are not equal to digital. Sorry plastic lovers. And I believe the numbers back that up.

Cassette was a hissy mess, even with Dolby.

My Teac reel to reel at its highest speed produced good sound, but could not rival today's digital. And it still had some hiss, but not like cassette.

For a time I had what was called a hi-fi 8 track recording deck, to make 8-tracks for my friends car. Wolfson machine. The only good use for 8 track tape was to use it as pubic hair or afros on Halloween costumes in college.

I wirelessly stream music from my NAS to a Tinker Board running Volumio and into a Emotiva or other DAC. It sounds great. SBC/Volumio to DAC sounds identical to when I compare on the fly the same material through my CD player (as transport) to the same DAC. Bits are bits, whether on a hard drive or a disc, whether sent through a wire or the air.

I own no power conditioners or digital conditioners.

I will confess that I love the sound of my EL34 tube amp. I conclude my brain must like second order harmonics, or maybe certain distortion. Call the amp's sound "liquid," "euphonic," "distorted," or "rolled off," my brain finds it very pleasing. I am willing to admit its performance and specs do not come close to comparing to my Hypex amps, which we know measure superbly. I get listener fatigue with the Hypex at times. Of course source material and the quality of the recording are of paramount importance.

I would doubt many, if any, of us can hear any difference between .5% distortion and .0005% Is it noble or best to have the lowest distortion and highest SINAD possible? I'm not sure, but I am happy to admit that it aint gonna hurt, and that precision is a good thing. And a well designed and engineered device typically is better than one that is not.

 

[Deleted member 23424]

I'm a football fan (the proper one, played with a foot and a ball, not handyhelmetegg).

Every week I have to listen to idiot pundits' incorrect understanding of the game and watch analysis produced by TV company employees with little knowledge of the tactical side of the game.

Same shit.

I see little difference between a careerist "mummy I want to be a journalist" half-head explaining why special cables and burn in are great and a bad haircut who played lower level football telling me his take on a bona fide top level genius football manager's tactics.

And I don't have a problem with either.

Almost every industry in the world is the same.

If you're clever/informed enough to avoid such, you're winning. Otherwise, stop supporting capitalism. Because that's your beef.

 

[dtaylo1066]

I'm a football fan (the proper one, played with a foot and a ball, not handyhelmetegg).

Every week I have to listen to idiot pundits' incorrect understanding of the game and watch analysis produced by TV company employees with little knowledge of the tactical side of the game.

Same shit.

I see little difference between a careerist "mummy I want to be a journalist" half-head explaining why special cables and burn in are great and a bad haircut who played lower level football telling me his take on a bona fide top level genius football manager's tactics.

And I don't have a problem with either.

Almost every industry in the world is the same.

If you're clever/informed enough to avoid such, you're winning. Otherwise, stop supporting capitalism. Because that's your beef.

 

[dtaylo1066]

Caveat emptor, indeed! If you don't like it, get a nanny or be a sheep. We live in a world where the game is now to blame someone for everything that has happened to you or has occured in the world. Sorry, but football, that soccer thing, is boring.

 

[steve59]

No one is telling you what to think.
You have gone beyond the appearance of good-faith disagreement and entered the realm of the troll. Jim

Hi Jim, must we revert to name calling? I’m not advocating for or against any pov. I asked why ragging on products clearly aimed at a different market is better than ignoring it. Every answer changes my question to fit a prepared answer. To call me a troll because I don’t agree with the forum masses isn’t an answer either and saying nothing when there’s nothing to say is my go to move before name calling.

There’s no wrong answer whatever it is. I’m asking why pick a product not intended for members of this forum to hammer? If you said practice I’d be lik, ok whatever. You could say slow news day. Most of the megabuck stuff on tas and stereophile are more for whats best forum and others like it. This site has a rep for finding the good affordable gear. I think talking smack about the audio jewlery out there diminishes the quality of the forum and, personally ignoring the stuff none of us will ever buy is a better look.
now I’ll take my own advice and ignore the (what I consider) threads that don’t apply to me. Enjoy.