Stereophile 2023 recommended gear list

[Purité Audio]

Why would you be civil to charlatans?
Keith

 

[BogdanR]

What vitriol? A magazine comes up with a pile of bovine execrates, and we are supposed to roll over and be politically correct?
They have kept some kind of flame, that of 2-channel .. seriously ?????. They have kept the flame of ever increasing prices for no sonic gains, that for sure. And they should not be criticized? In passing the flame keepers made sure of keeping audiophiles away from the superlative gears the Japanese Hi-Fi companies were basically churning out during the 70s-80s... In most, no, all of their reviews of that time (as it is now), you would not see them trying to be objective over the superiority of the Japanese gears... A Linn Sondek, a really poor TT by the way, will always win over any of the Japanese direct drive, even over the superlative Technics SP-10 and its competitors from Kenwood, SOny , Pioneer, et al... Yep them them S'Phile and /or TAS and perhaps all their imitators...

They must be called out. They can do better.

Peace.

Technics SL-1200G: $3999 incl. tonearm.
A Class A product listed in the very list derided here. The Sondek is listed below, in Class B.
Perhaps you should read the list before casting any stones.

I stand by what I’ve said. I can deeply disagree with something or someone without resorting to vitriol.

 

[BogdanR]

Why would you be civil to charlatans?
Keith

Because it throws them off?

 

[Purité Audio]

A high building?
Keith

 

[BogdanR]

A high building?
Keith

Your word, and your thinking, not mine.

 

[Mart68]

Laugh and move on? There are ways to point out the silliness of ”textural suppleness” without name calling, no? One can be civl with people, even with the ones who he disagrees deeply.

For myself I'd rather criticise the nonsense talked, rather than the individual. Unless they are making statements personal to them and which are worthy of critique.

But I'm not into attempting to suppress someone else's reaction. It's a forum, you're going to get a broad church.

 

[BogdanR]

For myself I'd rather criticise the nonsense talked, rather than the individual. Unless they are making statements personal to them and which are worthy of critique.

But I'm not into attempting to suppress someone else's reaction. It's a forum, you're going to get a broad church.

I don’t disagree with the ”broad church“ statement. It is what it is, nothing more nothing less.
And I’m not attempting to suppress anyone else’s reaction. Just wondering about the level of vitriol unquestionably present in some comments here.

 

[teched58]

Here's a comment that'll piss everybody off:

When I hear from people who are very, very concerned about "civility" and being polite and "not hurting anybody's fwellings," and they are MORE CONCERNED about policing insults than about the subject that is being discussed, I always assume that I have come upon a non-alpha. A person who has spent most of their career being a good little conformist.

If these people are individual contributors -- for example, engineers with no management responsibilities -- then they may do very well in life, making good money and having good careers.

And they may also do well if they have small businesses or work as consultants.

However, if they attempt to rise within the brutal culture that is life in the modern American corporation (and tech companies in particular), they will not last long. Not long at all.

 

[antcollinet]

Here's a comment that'll piss everybody off:

When I hear from people who are very, very concerned about "civility" and being polite and "not hurting anybody's fwellings," and they are MORE CONCERNED about policing insults than about the subject that is being discussed, I always assume that I have come upon a non-alpha. A person who has spent most of their career being a good little conformist.

If these people are individual contributors -- for example, engineers with no management responsibilities -- then they may do very well in life, making good money and having good careers.

And they may also do well if they have small businesses or work as consultants.

However, if they attempt to rise within the brutal culture that is life in the modern American corporation (and tech companies in particular), they will not last long. Not long at all.

Doesn't piss me off - but I will tend to suspect future posts of being equally poorly thought out.

 

[BogdanR]

Here's a comment that'll piss everybody off:

When I hear from people who are very, very concerned about "civility" and being polite and "not hurting anybody's fwellings," and they are MORE CONCERNED about policing insults than about the subject that is being discussed, I always assume that I have come upon a non-alpha. A person who has spent most of their career being a good little conformist.

If these people are individual contributors -- for example, engineers with no management responsibilities -- then they may do very well in life, making good money and having good careers.

And they may also do well if they have small businesses or work as consultants.

However, if they attempt to rise within the brutal culture that is life in the modern American corporation (and tech companies in particular), they will not last long. Not long at all.

Oy Vey!
All I have to do now is to bow to your Alphaness. Or something.
I'm not pissed really, it just warrants more disappointment with this sort of comment threads.
With this I'm out of this conversation, I'm turning off the notifications on this thread. Better things to do with my Sunday in particular (BBQ!!!) and life in general.

P.S. The general lack of civility in public discourse is significantly more disconcerning than any confabulations any hifi rag may come up with.

 

[rdenney]

Here's a comment that'll piss everybody off:

When I hear from people who are very, very concerned about "civility" and being polite and "not hurting anybody's fwellings," and they are MORE CONCERNED about policing insults than about the subject that is being discussed, I always assume that I have come upon a non-alpha. A person who has spent most of their career being a good little conformist.

If these people are individual contributors -- for example, engineers with no management responsibilities -- then they may do very well in life, making good money and having good careers.

And they may also do well if they have small businesses or work as consultants.

However, if they attempt to rise within the brutal culture that is life in the modern American corporation (and tech companies in particular), they will not last long. Not long at all.

Or, you may be seeing someone who wants to win over those who have been deluded in good faith instead of scoring points or scorching the earth to the point that nobody even cares about truth any more. Subversive action is often more effective than raining fire on friend and foe alike.

Rick “hard lessons from an old rainer of fire” Denney

 

[MattHooper]

Mikey publicly did the same to me on the Computer Audiophile forums a few years back.
He claimed I "besmirched his character" and was going to have Stereophiles parent organization take legal action against me. LOL
To their credit a bunch of members jumped on him, making fun of him, and embarrassed him so badly he shut his mouth and never did crap. The whole bruhaha has since been deleted by Chris.
Arthur is quite bit of a subjectivist wack job himself, what he's written on the high end media subject it mostly correct, but it's also a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. ROTF---------
You just can't make this schitt up.

While I respect Fremer's reviewing talents, I've had an on-line clash with Fremer (at least once). It's pretty easy to end up in his firing line, given his personality.

I agree with your take on Arthur. He ran his high end store in my city so I was quite familiar with him, and had some funny stories. But, definitely whenever I'm reading his criticisms that pot calling the kettle black always pops in to my mind.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

To tell you the truth, I'm surprised that AI hasn't taken over the subjective reviewing. Maybe it has, but we just don't know it.

The same thought has crossed my mind.

Jim

 

[FrantzM]

Technics SL-1200G: $3999 incl. tonearm.
A Class A product listed in the very list derided here. The Sondek is listed below, in Class B.
Perhaps you should read the list before casting any stones.

I stand by what I’ve said. I can deeply disagree with something or someone without resorting to vitriol.

At ease casting stones.. I may not have expressed it well but we were talking about the 80-s when TAS and S'Phile were basically the only game in town..

And again I don't see the vitriol. Subjective

Peace.

 

[Sal1950]

Thank you, you've made my point and continue to do so quite eloquently. The Grand Anti Stereophile Crusade continues in a place it won't make one iota of difference whatsoever. But hey, it's your breath to waste, who am I to tell you how to waste it?

Thank you so much for giving me permission to tell the truth.

 

[BogdanR]

Thank you so much for giving me permission to tell the truth.

Never gave or taken your permission to do anything. Let's be clear here.

 

[Sal1950]

There's nothing inherently different here. The 'advertising' is the wildly disproportionate representation of cheap Chinese, failure riddled brand/s I won't mention. Amir gets literally tons of free gear from certain companies to review. No interests are declared. No lists of loans/donations or any of the back and forth in the background when issues occur are disclosed.

It's the complete opposite of transparency. People buy based on those reviews and are left in the cold by the company when their gear doesn't live up to expectations and they lose real money. Accountability is non existent. And the pattern is : rinse and repeat.

Hardly a beacon of truth and independence is it?

John, I believe your distorting things a bit here.
Amir often, if not always, reveals if reviewed gear was a member or manufacturer loan.
As far as the Chinese gear reviews, he measures them and lets the chips fall where they may.
It is a fact that much of it is excellently engineered as proven by the numbers, they don't lie.
But then common sense tells me that a dirt cheap product produced 8k miles away might not offer the best in reliability, but only time can tell. Same with product support, you'd better understand it could be difficult to near non-existent.
I'd add that personally, whenever possible, I won't buy products from a country dictated by the Chinese Communist Party due to their horrid position on human rights and more. But that's me, and that's my right!
OTOH I wouldn't call for censorship or refuse to review said products.
Amir and members can then do what they personally can sleep with.

With this I'm out of this conversation, I'm turning off the notifications on this thread. Better things to do with my Sunday in particular (BBQ!!!) and life in general.

OK, bye. Yea.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Never gave or taken your permission to do anything. Let's be clear here.

You say that vitriol is unnecessary. Yet you attacked other people who did not aim any vitriol at you. Instead, it was aimed at this Stereophile list. One of two conclusions is obvious, at least to me. Either you are:

1) An aggressive apologist for Stereophile, or ....
2) You are playing the defensive side of the passive-aggressive card, baiting other people to aim comments at you, thereby justifying your victim stance.

Neither choice is attractive.

Jim

 

[BogdanR]

At ease casting stones.. I may not have expressed it well but we were talking about the 80-s when TAS and S'Phile were basically the only game in town..

And again I don't see the vitriol. Subjective

Peace.

I'm glad I gave you the opportunity to reframe what you said, even though that is still not exactly accurate. I'm thinking of brands like Maranz, Denon, Nak or Accuphase among others who made the list throughout the '80s pretty consistently.

As for the vitriol, I hope you realize "excreates" is quite a bit more vitriolic then the simple BS. You probably do as you made the effort to use it.

Peace! (I actually have a longing for it)

 

[BogdanR]

You say that vitriol is unnecessary. Yet you attacked other people who did not aim any vitriol at you. Instead, it was aimed at this Stereophile list. One of two conclusions is obvious, at least to me. Either you are:

1) An aggressive apologist for Stereophile, or ....
2) You are playing the defensive side of the passive-aggressive card, baiting other people to aim comments at you, thereby justifying your victim stance.

Neither choice is attractive.

Jim

1. I haven't attacked anyone, maybe you want to revisit my comments.
2. I haven't been aggressive one iota and offered no apologies for any rag in existence.
3. I'm pretty happy with who I am, not looking for anything really.
4. You seem to believe that lobbying vitriol at anything or anyone should be OK. Great, I don't need to know more about you.

Your switching to ad hominem is not attractive either. You can move on or I can block you. Your choice really.