Sonos Five Smart Speaker Review

[A Surfer]

Yesterday, I had the chance to listen to the Five at a friend's house, and, just like with my own Move, the distortion in the mid-low and low frequencies was VERY noticeable even at fairly low sound pressure levels. In terms of low-frequency reproduction, it cannot be called hi-fi. To avoid distortion, I've set the low-frequency EQ on my Move almost as low as it can go, but I wonder if there are people who are satisfied with the flat setting.

Does Amir's testing show this obvious distortion? I do not at all agree, the sound quality is quite high, and I came from some very nice floor standers supported by two SVS SB 2000 Pro subs.

Absolutely you have to be realistic, the laws of physics still apply for small drivers, but the sound quality is actually very good.

 

[bevok]

Yes I think it was so the headphones could be put to market, just can’t see how else something could be allowed out the gates like that. That said for me most of the core features were ok after a couple of weeks - main issue since is slowness initiating play and bringing up the ‘elipses’ menu (I know those with local file libraries have suffered though, I use Plex for mine).

I’ve haven’t noticed low frequency distortion, is this with Trueplay on or off? Is it possible to get a good recording of it or description (e.g. static, buzzing etc?). Consistently on all tracks?

 

[ahofer]

Why would you say that? Not my experience and I own 2 pairs of these.

It's not about the equipment, just a matter of what most people can hear. Certainly "hi res" is a waste in the final recording (if not in the mix), but even CD quality is probably overkill.

I was able to get the classical samples on this test - with headphones and careful listening for tells. Casually, and probably on speakers, I might never have known.

How Well Can You Hear Audio Quality?

A hi-def test for your ears (and your audio equipment): Listen to these songs and see if you can tell the difference between an MP3 and an uncompressed audio file.

www.npr.org

The interesting thing is that with pop and jazz, sometimes people prefer the MP3. 320k MP3 is nearly indistinguishable.

Of course, since the format was developed using known audiological thresholds and blind testing, this is the result one reasonably should expect.

 

[A Surfer]

It's not about the equipment, just a matter of what most people can hear. Certainly "hi res" is a waste in the final recording (if not in the mix), but even CD quality is probably overkill.

I was able to get the classical samples on this test - with headphones and careful listening for tells. Casually, and probably on speakers, I might never have known.

How Well Can You Hear Audio Quality?

A hi-def test for your ears (and your audio equipment): Listen to these songs and see if you can tell the difference between an MP3 and an uncompressed audio file.

www.npr.org

The interesting thing is that with pop and jazz, sometimes people prefer the MP3. 320k MP3 is nearly indistinguishable.

Of course, since the format was developed using known audiological thresholds and blind testing, this is the result one reasonably should expect.

My mistake. I somehow interpreted what you were saying as meaning the Five wasn't good enough for uncompressed recordings.

I agree with you that even a 320 MP3 file is audibly transparent for the vast majority of human beings. Perhaps some people can train themselves to under certain conditions detect differences versus the uncompressed master, but that isn't what listening to music means. So in practice, for listening to music, even a well encoded mp3 file can be indistinguishable.

 

[A Surfer]

And at a headfi meet that I organized years ago, I conducted a multiple trial, multiple user test and out of 7 healthy, young test subjects, including a young woman, not one person could tell the 320 mp3 from the lossless master it was created from. Not even close.

Two of the subjects were sure going into it that they would be able to because they had been doing sighted listening comparison and were so confident. They were wrong of course.

 

[A Surfer]

Yes I think it was so the headphones could be put to market, just can’t see how else something could be allowed out the gates like that. That said for me most of the core features were ok after a couple of weeks - main issue since is slowness initiating play and bringing up the ‘elipses’ menu (I know those with local file libraries have suffered though, I use Plex for mine).

I’ve haven’t noticed low frequency distortion, is this with Trueplay on or off? Is it possible to get a good recording of it or description (e.g. static, buzzing etc?). Consistently on all tracks?

I find there is no quick way back in the app to get to the music library. So if for instance I have selected Tidal and then drilled down through Tidal, if I then wanted to switch to YouTube music or something else I would have keep going back one nested navigation level at a time.

Am I missing a quick way to do this in the app?

 

[vert]

Just to be sure, is any interaction with the Sonos app (beyond setup of the speakers) necessary if Roon is used ?

 

[vert]

My mistake. I somehow interpreted what you were saying as meaning the Five wasn't good enough for uncompressed recordings.

I agree with you that even a 320 MP3 file is audibly transparent for the vast majority of human beings. Perhaps some people can train themselves to under certain conditions detect differences versus the uncompressed master, but that isn't what listening to music means. So in practice, for listening to music, even a well encoded mp3 file can be indistinguishable.

My experience with the subjet: I tested myself years ago with a Brazilian pop track featuring some artful percussion work (Caetano Veloso, "Rumba Azul"), and compared MP3 to FLAC focusing narrowly on some of the percussion details. The MP3 sounded like more ordinary drumming, the FLAC sounded like the percussionist was subtly suggesting a melody. That's a one-time test, done a long time ago, and I'm not claiming any definitiveness. To be really thorough, I should do the test again and re-evaluate today. But I also recall one of Amir's posts, also quite a bit of time ago, where he said he was able to distinguish between the two.

YouTube figure and audio engineer Rick Beato once did a video where he put one person (or two, I don't remember) to a similar test, but the person was not in control of the listening, i.e. able to chose to focus on details of their own chosing for as long as they wished. Just A/B listening, tell which sample is which, get your results at the end. The test subject failed, and Beato's verdict was there is no difference, and if you believe otherwise you're an "audiophool", in standard Beato fashion, at least he was like that at the time. But to me the fact that the person was treated like a lab rat and not in control of the listening was an obvious flaw in the test procedure.

 

[ahofer]

Just to be sure, is any interaction with the Sonos app (beyond setup of the speakers) necessary if Roon is used ?

No, unless you want to use the auto EQ in Sonos.

 

[ahofer]

My experience with the subjet: I tested myself years ago with a Brazilian pop track featuring some artful percussion work (Caetano Veloso, "Rumba Azul"), and compared MP3 to FLAC focusing narrowly on some of the percussion details. The MP3 sounded like more ordinary drumming, the FLAC sounded like the percussionist was subtly suggesting a melody. That's a one-time test, done a long time ago, and I'm not claiming any definitiveness. To be really thorough, I should do the test again and re-evaluate today. But I also recall one of Amir's posts, also quite a bit of time ago, where he said he was able to distinguish between the two.

YouTube figure and audio engineer Rick Beato once did a video where he put one person (or two, I don't remember) to a similar test, but the person was not in control of the listening, i.e. able to chose to focus on details of their own chosing for as long as they wished. Just A/B listening, tell which sample is which, get your results at the end. The test subject failed, and Beato's verdict was there is no difference, and if you believe otherwise you're an "audiophool", in standard Beato fashion, at least he was like that at the time. But to me the fact that the person was treated like a lab rat and not in control of the listening was an obvious flaw in the test procedure.

As I said, I’ve succeeded myself, with headphones, but it is definitely subtle, and I have low confidence I could do it with speakers.

 

[A Surfer]

Plus, it HAS to be blind, multiple trials and the discrimination rate must be at least 90%.

So if anyone is using sighted listening tests, that is absolutely unreliable and should carry with it zero confidence in the results.

 

[bevok]

My experience with the subjet: I tested myself years ago with a Brazilian pop track featuring some artful percussion work (Caetano Veloso, "Rumba Azul"), and compared MP3 to FLAC focusing narrowly on some of the percussion details. The MP3 sounded like more ordinary drumming, the FLAC sounded like the percussionist was subtly suggesting a melody. That's a one-time test, done a long time ago, and I'm not claiming any definitiveness. To be really thorough, I should do the test again and re-evaluate today. But I also recall one of Amir's posts, also quite a bit of time ago, where he said he was able to distinguish between the two.

YouTube figure and audio engineer Rick Beato once did a video where he put one person (or two, I don't remember) to a similar test, but the person was not in control of the listening, i.e. able to chose to focus on details of their own chosing for as long as they wished. Just A/B listening, tell which sample is which, get your results at the end. The test subject failed, and Beato's verdict was there is no difference, and if you believe otherwise you're an "audiophool", in standard Beato fashion, at least he was like that at the time. But to me the fact that the person was treated like a lab rat and not in control of the listening was an obvious flaw in the test procedure.

The experience of using the ABX mode in Foobar to do the test was really illustrative to me, perceived differences disappeared. I learnt a lot about perception through that. Of course you might be a better listener than me and pick up the differences, I know it can be done. I also just chose random songs, I know if you get the right high frequency content and really listen you can teach yourself to pick it up, but that’s not really typical listening to music IMHO

 

[bevok]

I find there is no quick way back in the app to get to the music library. So if for instance I have selected Tidal and then drilled down through Tidal, if I then wanted to switch to YouTube music or something else I would have keep going back one nested navigation level at a time.

Am I missing a quick way to do this in the app?

I don’t switch much once I’m ‘in’ a source but had found that annoying. Your question prompted me to discover if you just tap on the word Sonos in the top left corner you get straight back home! Thanks for the prompt to experiment

 

[A Surfer]

I don’t switch much once I’m ‘in’ a source but had found that annoying. Your question prompted me to discover if you just tap on the word Sonos in the top left corner you get straight back home! Thanks for the prompt to experiment

View attachment 383806

Thank you!
What terrible interface design. I used to do testing and help file work for a small IT company. I would look at forms or a web application, testing for functionality, frequently finding a critical user feature embedded in a control, with no possible way for the client to know it was there. When I would point this finding out, the developers would be bewildered and express that clearly anybody would know to click on the control, despite the fact that only the developer even knows that it is a control with an embedded feature. Sigh, that is why companies need to hire people to counterbalance this common blind spot. A good developer is not necessarily able to think like the target user.

 

[bevok]

Thank you!
What terrible interface design. I used to do testing and help file work for a small IT company. I would look at forms or a web application, testing for functionality, frequently finding a critical user feature embedded in a control, with no possible way for the client to know it was there. When I would point this finding out, the developers would be bewildered and express that clearly anybody would know to click on the control, despite the fact that only the developer even knows that it is a control with an embedded feature. Sigh, that is why companies need to hire people to counterbalance this common blind spot. A good developer is not necessarily able to think like the target user.

You are absolutely correct. I struggle to see why the new interface is an improvement usability-wise.

 

[vert]

The experience of using the ABX mode in Foobar to do the test was really illustrative to me, perceived differences disappeared. I learnt a lot about perception through that. Of course you might be a better listener than me and pick up the differences, I know it can be done. I also just chose random songs, I know if you get the right high frequency content and really listen you can teach yourself to pick it up, but that’s not really typical listening to music IMHO

But "what if" some differences, even tiny impact the general experience in a bad way ? That was a question I had. Since storage issues are a thing of the past it's not really worth it for me. For radios, I do listen to a number of MP3 streams.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Thank you!
What terrible interface design. I used to do testing and help file work for a small IT company. I would look at forms or a web application, testing for functionality, frequently finding a critical user feature embedded in a control, with no possible way for the client to know it was there. When I would point this finding out, the developers would be bewildered and express that clearly anybody would know to click on the control, despite the fact that only the developer even knows that it is a control with an embedded feature. Sigh, that is why companies need to hire people to counterbalance this common blind spot. A good developer is not necessarily able to think like the target user.

The newest version of the Sonos app seems to have some functionality back, but since I never experienced the version that worked previously I can't say much about "improvements". What I find "most" annoying about updates is complete redesign of the interface. I don't enjoy wasting time adapting to a "new" interface when I just finished learning how to use the old one.

 

[CapMan]

My biggest grievance is the very flakey indexing of my music collection - sometimes it works, sometimes it fails, fixes that worked at one time no longer work - even HEOS managed to run an index successfully

 

[Pritaudio]

Guess I won’t be upgrading from Sonos connect to port.
S2 doesn’t seem to have improved much from S1.

 

[mmi]

I find there is no quick way back in the app to get to the music library. So if for instance I have selected Tidal and then drilled down through Tidal, if I then wanted to switch to YouTube music or something else I would have keep going back one nested navigation level at a time.

Am I missing a quick way to do this in the app?

As was posted above tap the logo, or just drag the card down from the top to dismiss it.