SONOS Drops Support for Older Devices

[pjug]

Mostly yes, just a re-phrased way of saying it, but the work on splitting the system is new. That is something a lot of us have said they could/should do but this is the first SONOS has said they would.

Oh, and no change to the trade-up program, which I and others feel is also a mistake as it is today.

We'll see - Don

Maybe the Sonos FAQ was changed; I never looked at it. But the arstechnica article is from the day of the announcement and I remember reading the point about split system that day, so they didn't edit the article. So I'm pretty sure Sonos had the idea of split system going all along and they were just too out of touch to communicate properly.

 

[Zoomer]

Expect some further announcements soon on the restaffing of their marcom dpt.

 

[Cahudson42]

There is a way to reward such arrogance - and that is to not buy anything Sonos. Which is what I will be doing..

Did the same with HP printers when they refused Windows 64bit drivers for the HP1000. Canon is just great, thank you.

May Sonos RIP.

 

[DuxServit]

Funny, Sonos received the Product of the Decade over at Audiophile Style.

 

[amirm]

I only have the first gen SONOS products. Went to use it a week ago said it had to update again. It seems to always want to update. Upon update it says there are no devices discovered. Ripped out the whole thing and put in a Bluetooth speaker in its place.

 

[Wombat]

I only have the first gen SONOS products. Went to use it a week ago said it had to update again. It seems to always want to update. Upon update it says there are no devices discovered. Ripped out the whole thing and put in a Bluetooth speaker in its place.

It doesn't comprehend when you say Klippel.

 

[bigx5murf]

A Chromecast might not be the answer either. I recently bought a Topping D50s + Chromecast Audio (as recommended here) to add streaming to my existing stereo and liberate the music on my HP laptop (a modern i7). I like the D50s DAC, it seems to work well using a coax cable from my dvd/cd player. I was going to use it's Toslink input with the Chromecast. My issue is that Google requires you to install the Google Home app to setup the Chromecast and that app requires a modern iOS or Android device not a PC. My old iPad2 won't work, and anyway I am not wild about bringing the Google spying for marketers app thing onboard just to get the Chromecast to talk to the WiFi network. So now I am looking at doing something like an Allo streamer to pass music to the DAC, but that will drive the price up a couple of hundred dollars. Google is really intent on pushing the whole smart speaker/app/spying thing into peoples houses and cars. Fair enough I guess since they probably sold the Chromecast devices at a loss to get that entry. The Chromecast is only a bargain if you are willing to accept what comes with it. I'm not.

I was able to stream from win10 PC to CCA without an Android device using this https://github.com/SamDel/ChromeCast-Desktop-Audio-Streamer

 

[Pluto]

Does SONOS really have a unique place in today's market? I seem to do quite successful multi-room using a couple of Internet radios as renderers combined with powered speakers, all fed from a simple server. Standard domestic wi-fi, nothing proprietary and the speakers are the limiting factor on sound quality.

So what is the basis of the devotion to SONOS?

 

[HammerSandwich]

Funny, Sonos received the Product of the Decade over at Audiophile Style.

"Sonos" does not appear on that page...

 

[DuxServit]

Funny, Sonos received the Product of the Decade over at Audiophile Style.

My bad ... I saw a flashing advert and associated it with the text on the page. Too much ads...

 

[JohnKay]

Oh boy... the internet buzzed and it is still buzzing after Sonos issued the initial announcement and the subsequent clarification with the CEO 'apology' (i.e. 'sorry but we are not sorry').

I sold my sonos speakers (all 'legacy') more than 6 months ago but I also gifted a few to my girlfriend who loves the ease of use and convenience. I use Roon with a bunch of RPi3s feeding traditional amps, a few blue sound devices and my PC. LOVE the sound and one would argue the solution is comparatively less exposed to the risk of planned obsolescence (excluding the Bluesound devices of course). Not entirely of course. Roon can go under (hypothetically) and then I would have no multiroom software to control my end points. I could find another solution but nothing does everything that I can achieve with Roon (e.g. manually adjust sync times across end points, DSP for each end point, etc.).

Don't care for multiroom audio that stays in sync? You are much much happier and more free to choose among options that do not become 'legacy' in 5 years . Amir's bluetooth speaker is lovely solution in that case.

I hate what Sonos has done as I have to help my girlfriend maintain her soon to be legacy whole home audio system. She does not want to use Roon because it is not as convenient, she will only use airplay 2 (multiroom) because it is so easy to control with a single swipe on her iPhone. Alternatively she is happy to use the sonos app to send spotify to multiple rooms and does not have to worry about sync.
I hate to think this but while there are alternatives to this user experience, they are more expensive and they are not immune from the crap that Sonos just caused.

We can certainly go back to traditional hifi. It will sound much much much better than sonos, it will never be obsolete and it is relatively easy to use. it will however not offer multi-room audio that is always in sync, it will not be as easily controlled from a smartphone, it will require living room sacrifices (i.e. speakers NOT placed against walls) and that is not going to go down well with most people. I would love it but I bet I am the minority

So while I am angry and sad that sonos did this, I fear I am kind of a hostage to my girlfriends' reliance on the convenience that now comes with a 5 year life.

Damn

 

[JohnKay]

Does SONOS really have a unique place in today's market? I seem to do quite successful multi-room using a couple of Internet radios as renderers combined with powered speakers, all fed from a simple server. Standard domestic wi-fi, nothing proprietary and the speakers are the limiting factor on sound quality.

So what is the basis of the devotion to SONOS?

As far as I am aware it is because of the overall ease of use and discreet looks. I don't like the sonos sound and I am happy to tinker so I go with Rpi3 + Roon but most of my friends, family etc. hate that stuff.

 

[JohnKay]

They sent an apology email today backtracking and explaining they are working on a solution to allow older devices to operate separately. Cannot believe they thought it was a good idea to announce it as they did...

​

We heard you. We did not get this right from the start. My apologies for that and I wanted to personally assure you of the path forward:​

​

First, rest assured that come May, when we end new software updates for our legacy products, they will continue to work just as they do today. We are not bricking them, we are not forcing them into obsolescence, and we are not taking anything away. Many of you have invested heavily in your Sonos systems, and we intend to honor that investment for as long as possible. While legacy Sonos products won’t get new software features, we pledge to keep them updated with bug fixes and security patches for as long as possible. If we run into something core to the experience that can’t be addressed, we’ll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you’ll see in your experience.​

​

Secondly, we heard you on the issue of legacy products and modern products not being able to coexist in your home. We are working on a way to split your system so that modern products work together and get the latest features, while legacy products work together and remain in their current state. We’re finalizing details on this plan and will share more in the coming weeks.​

​

While we have a lot of great products and features in the pipeline, we want our customers to upgrade to our latest and greatest products when they’re excited by what the new products offer, not because they feel forced to do so. That’s the intent of the trade up program we launched for our loyal customers.​

​

Thank you for being a Sonos customer. Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. I hope that you’ll forgive our misstep, and let us earn back your trust. Without you, Sonos wouldn't exist and we’ll work harder than ever to earn your loyalty every single day.​

​

If you have any further questions please don’t hesitate to contact us.​

Sincerely,​

Patrick​

​

Patrick Spence​

CEO, Sonos​

This is an interesting communications exercise but let's consider this a bit: They confirm that speakers will continue working after May for "as long as possible". That could be 1 month, 3 months, 6... who knows. They confirm that legacy speakers will not get any new features and also that you will have to split the system if you wish new gen units to be updated. Existing services may change something which then does not carry over to the legacy system. I can think Spotify making a small change and then... pooof. No more spotify on the legacy system. To me this the same as as what they announced in the pre 'apology' message. Not sure of any backtracking other than offering a preface apology before restating.

 

[DonH56]

I agree, the only significant difference is the offer to develop a "split" system. I had not seen that before, though as @pjug said it was on the FAQ. I do not recall seeing that on the FAQ page when I looked after getting the first email, and judging by the buzz nobody else did either. Maybe they waited to see the blowback before announcing it? I don't know and do not actually spend time on the SONOS site (had to register for their forum, been years since I looked). What I saw Friday evening indicated they will support updates for legacy SW for now, but who knows where they'll be a year from now.

I didn't check their forum over the weekend, too many other things going on (and had to work some, natch). Since I am not streaming I can live with it for a while but will be looking at alternatives going forward. There are a number of other options now that weren't really there 10+ years ago.

 

[SimpleTheater]

IMO, there is a market to create a system that will not go obsolete. My "dumb" tv is smart because I added a $35 FireStick to one of the HDMI inputs.

Why a company doesn't create products with little USB sticks that are sold with it. So instead of SONOS telling people their $500 SONOS Amps are going to be legacy soon and making them pay $480 (30% discount off the new AMPs $650 price), due to lack of memory/storage, they could sell everyone a new $50 USB stick (this assumes the issue with the legacy products is due to memory/storage and not a cheap attempt to get the stock price up to IPO levels by forcing their current users to upgrade the majority of equipment sold since 2004).

 

[DuxServit]

IMO, there is a market to create a system that will not go obsolete.

One approach (which some folks here have done, including me) is to architecturally separate the function of music content management from delivery to audio hardware, using tools such as Roon, WiFi networks etc. The plus is that our audio gear does not become obsolete, but the downside is that it involves some work (eg. Setting up servers, networks etc). Now Sonos has gone the other direction by ”bundling” everything into a user friendly product.

The question (for me at least): is there a new product category that (a) allows easy multi-room transmission of music and source/server management, but (b) allows traditional audio hardware to be connected. Something akin to an AirPlay2 endpoint box that supports higher audio quality beyond what is provided by Apple Airport Express.

 

[captain paranoia]

The question (for me at least): is there a new product category that (a) allows easy multi-room transmission of music and source/server management, but (b) allows traditional audio hardware to be connected

Like a Chromecast audio, you mean...?

Oh, bugger...

 

[captain paranoia]

Like this really stupid EU regulation, regulating charging cables:

That article seems rather confused. It claims to have been published only a few days ago, but talks about the impending release of the iPhone 7. Which was released in 2016, and discontinued in 2019.

I'm glad to have got away from the insanity of proprietary charger and data ports on devices, and a switch to a recognised standard such as a USB variant. I have a bunch of old chargers and cables that are scrap. Whereas a charger with a USB type A port, coupled with a suitable lead, can be used for any device capable of accepting a 5V supply. The adoption of a recognised USB-C standard means fast chargers are also interchangeable. It doesn't stifle innovation; it encourages standardisation. Examples of this are GSM, IP, IEEE802.x etc.

 

[ta240]

Does SONOS really have a unique place in today's market? I seem to do quite successful multi-room using a couple of Internet radios as renderers combined with powered speakers, all fed from a simple server. Standard domestic wi-fi, nothing proprietary and the speakers are the limiting factor on sound quality.

So what is the basis of the devotion to SONOS?

Open the box, plug it in and go. They are for the shopper that doesn't want to have to try to get any different products to interact. And once their name became synonymous with streamed and multi-room audio it was the brand name to say when talking about that. Somewhat similar to Bose; there are plenty of better and cheaper solutions but few that just require plugging in one component.

 

[oldandintheway]

Thanks to bigx5murf for the help. The Desktop Audio Streamer (from GitHub) had me streaming to the Chromecast in minutes, It seems to be limited to 44100, but that will do for the moment. I can stream anything I can play on the PC: local file or internet streaming. I first had to get the Chromecast on the network, which I did by doing a reset to factory settings on an old Android phone, and then copying an older Chromecast apk file from the net to the phone's download folder using Syncios and installing that app. I then used the phone's WiFi to give the Chromecast my network name and password. I never installed Google Home or set up a Google account. Small victory. Reset the Android phone again too. Thanks again.

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