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SONOS Drops Support for Older Devices

Mnyb

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Which is why in large part, I've stuck to my Squeezebox Touch. The hardware has been discontinued, but the software is maintained by the Community.

I think it should be made illegal to discontinue support on older devices such that they stop working.

S

.. and as Squeezebox server aka LMS etc is open source and so is it's protocoll .

I have replaced my squeezeboxes with rasberry pi implemetations of the player , and suitable software player exist for many platforms iOS android PC MAC Linux .

I do own 4 squeezebox Touch myself (2 spares i bougth in advance ) a Radio a SB3 ... .

So worts case for the LMS/squeezebox ecosystem , all online servers die ok .

Then you can still run a local server with all kinds of plugins and use your players for your own files and some services that have third party plugins like spottify . The serve software exist for all kinds of OS and is open source and very ligthweigth some use a rasberry PI for the server.
As long as you can keep your local server running you can use your hardware untill it's dies it's natural death .

For goodwill reasons Logitech (who bougth slimdevices ) have been keeping the servers system running for many years pass when they discontinued the product line 2012 ? so they kept the servers up for 8 years now :)
 

Apesbrain

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So now I am looking at doing something like an Allo streamer to pass music to the DAC, but that will drive the price up a couple of hundred dollars.
Everything you need (except microSD card below) is in this $50 kit:
https://www.amazon.com/CanaKit-Raspberry-Premium-Supply-Listed/dp/B01C6EQNNK

$4 8GB microSD card:
https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-microSDHC-Memory-SDC4-8GBET/dp/B00200K1TS

If you don't already have one, you'll also need an $8 SD card writer:
https://www.amazon.com/UGREEN-Reader-Portable-Adapter-Windows/dp/B0779V61XB

And a $5 USB cable:
https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-1-5-Feet-24AWG-Plated-105436/dp/B009GUVZOK
 

FrantzM

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SONOS, owns the space of multi-room thanks to their great GUI, ease of use and easy, simple setup. One doesn't need 3 PhD to set it up. However much we love to talk about the, sometimes, free alternatives, they require so much knowledge as to be completely ignored by most people .. even for those in IT.
Still this is not a way to treat their customers. Not updating old products is understandable, breaking them, is unacceptable. Let's hope there is a serious Social Networks backlash..
 
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DonH56

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I'm sure that such behaviour would be actionable, unless purchasers had accepted a license agreement that specifically stated that the equipment would cease to function at the end of its supported life.

Most, including me, skimmed at best the license agreement and could not quote it now. License agreements/EULAs and such are another sore point with me; pages and pages of legalese that virtually nobody can follow let alone remember. A topic (rant) for another thread.

Technically they are not saying it won't cease to function, just that no updates will be possible, and functionality will be limited. An upgrade or two ago not all my devices upgraded right away with the result that I could not do some basic library functions like adding or searching. That's pretty broken in my book, but may meet the letter of the law (and I certainly do not know the law, here or across the pond). And of course if you add a new device you cannot update with older devices on the network, meaning you either cripple the new unit or pay to buy all new units. A lot of us have a number of units (seen 12 to 20 and more on the SONOS forum) so even at 30% off that is a lot of money to replace units that are working just fine now (and cost a lot less five years ago). One guy listed over 30 devices.

Users are livid as you might expect but hard to say if SONOS management is watching or cares. Their stock has been going mostly up and a few large investors have joined. Their last report included verbiage saying they needed to more-or-less get people to buy new gear; this may have been their solution. Remains to be seen if the backlash makes them change course. They could come out with a special deal that garners acceptable losses, blow off their older customers (who might not buy that much new gear anyway), or come up with a solution that lets new and old co-exist. I assume they could structure the code to do that but no idea at what cost. That would seem to me to be the cleanest solution but I've no idea how practical. Several folk suggest producing some sort of hub that lets you isolate new and old devices on separate in-house networks and run both SW versions but that could also be a mess.

I probably have the skills to set up a RaspberryPi and/or some sort of server scheme but making it work over the whole house and friendly enough for my wife (the kids are probably better able to handle it than I!) seems challenging. A friend of mine is using a Python library (SoCo) to control his, another option. Most people are not that technical and many have large investments in SONOS gear so I could not begin to guess the actual fallout. I suspect there will be a lot of grumbling (rage, even) that will die down and new users will come on board. As far as they are concerned the whole thing may blow over in a few months or a year. But remember the Pinto...
 

Pluto

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This sounds complicated. All it really says, sadly, is avoid proprietary solutions no matter how neat and tidy they may seem.
hard to say if SONOS management is watching or cares
You can bet your last greenback that they are observing, intently. If this runs true to type there will be people on the Sonos forum screaming, "class action" but this kind of thing can be astonishingly difficult (i.e. costly) to prove. Don't hold your breath waiting.

The best thing that could happen, IMHO, would be somebody reverse engineering their so-called trade secrets and placing the whole lot into the public domain. It's amazing how the possibility of such revelations will concentrate the corporate mind into devising less draconian solutions to the problem of obsolescent hardware.
 

somebodyelse

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You can bet your last greenback that they are observing, intently. If this runs true to type there will be people on the Sonos forum screaming, "class action" but this kind of thing can be astonishingly difficult (i.e. costly) to prove. Don't hold your breath waiting.
They even cited this sort of reaction as being likely in their stock market filings, so it'll have to be significantly worse than anticipated for them to alter course.

In similar news Under Armour are pulling support for their fitness devices.
 

Pluto

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They even cited this sort of reaction as being likely in their stock market filings
Fascinating. If somebody can show that the strategy of crippling obsolescent kit [as a way forward] was not strictly necessary, there'll be trouble :eek:
 

somebodyelse

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Fascinating. If somebody can show that the strategy of crippling obsolescent kit [as a way forward] was not strictly necessary, there'll be trouble :eek:
If there's trouble I'll be pleasantly surprised. They just have to point at pretty much any IT or phone manufacturer for an example of shorter product support.
 

Mnyb

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If there's trouble I'll be pleasantly surprised. They just have to point at pretty much any IT or phone manufacturer for an example of shorter product support.

Remember phones where you could just pop out the battery and get a new one from a store .....

I think this site is great in this regard, showing that old audio stuff performed god enough or really god in some cases , that there is no need to upgrade working stuff as often as audiophiles tend to do .
 
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DonH56

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This sounds complicated. All it really says, sadly, is avoid proprietary solutions no matter how neat and tidy they may seem.

You can bet your last greenback that they are observing, intently. If this runs true to type there will be people on the Sonos forum screaming, "class action" but this kind of thing can be astonishingly difficult (i.e. costly) to prove. Don't hold your breath waiting.

The best thing that could happen, IMHO, would be somebody reverse engineering their so-called trade secrets and placing the whole lot into the public domain. It's amazing how the possibility of such revelations will concentrate the corporate mind into devising less draconian solutions to the problem of obsolescent hardware.

There weren't a lot of other solutions ten years ago, and not that many now, that combine their ease of use and such. I'm really hoping they backtrack and figure out a way for old and new devices to commingle.

Several people have already mentioned some sort of class action lawsuit as well as running afoul of EU and AU consumer protection laws. I think SONOS has their assets covered so don't see anything happening on that side.

I've been around long enough to see things like this happen and know they'll usually blow over for the company. Some people will get hurt in the short term, but as long as they stay on top with decent performance/features they'll survive. I do wonder if they are creating a bigger opportunity for Amazon's Alexa and Apple products, along with a few others, to grab a big chunk of the market share. Or just buy out SONOS.
 

Mnyb

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Ease of use... I’ve found the slim device/ logitech system easy enough ? Just get your home network properly working first ? Btw most of you guys on this forum are way smarter then me in so many ways , so computer audio is no deep mystery .

Btw Sonos 50k track limit made it no go for me anyway ....

But I do feel the same way why is there no products in this category, well we have roon , but there it is again expensive and proprietary etc.
 

SimpleTheater

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sergeauckland said:
I think it should be made illegal to discontinue support on older devices such that they stop working

Agreed, there certainly needs to be some clear legal guidance of minimum support length if there isn't already, it does not fit with the right to repair ethos.

In support of SONOS, they are not making the products stop working, they are simply not updating them anymore. If you kept a tablet with the SONOS app on it and didn't update the SONOS app, the SONOS players will continue to work.

Secondly, I don't think we need the gov't to step in and tell us how long a private company should support there product. Let consumers decide if they want to keep doing business with this business, and maybe consumers will wake up and DEMAND a warranty that says the company won't end updates for at least xx years.
 

SimpleTheater

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But I do feel the same way why is there no products in this category, well we have roon , but there it is again expensive and proprietary etc.
About three years ago I switched to Yamaha's MusicCast. I'm very happy so far, but who knows, the "We're not going to update your products" email might be around the corner.

Considering the SONOS Amp cost $650 and you can get a Yamaha RX-V485 for $300 (and it's a complete 5.1 4k HDMI AVR), the Yamaha ecosystem is a lot less pricey. Also, the Yamaha AVRs have their own separate app (yes, you can still use the MusicCast app to control them), which can be used to control them individually. I believe this, plus their remote controls, will allow them to be useful for decades, even if the MusicCast system passes them by.
 

sergeauckland

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In support of SONOS, they are not making the products stop working, they are simply not updating them anymore. If you kept a tablet with the SONOS app on it and didn't update the SONOS app, the SONOS players will continue to work.

Secondly, I don't think we need the gov't to step in and tell us how long a private company should support there product. Let consumers decide if they want to keep doing business with this business, and maybe consumers will wake up and DEMAND a warranty that says the company won't end updates for at least xx years.
Firstly, not updating the app has implications for security, as many updates roll-up security with possible functional update.

Secondly, I think absolutely it's the responsibility of Government to regulate on such matters as support, warranty and fitness for purpose. Leave it to the market, and we get the obscenity of Nordost cables! I for one would like to see much more Government regulation and standards setting, not less.

S.
 

RayDunzl

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Most, including me, skimmed at best the license agreement and could not quote it now. License agreements/EULAs and such are another sore point with me; pages and pages of legalese that virtually nobody can follow let alone remember.

I worked at car rental long long ago. Big business in Florida.

Every customer had to sign the contract.

Everything was spelled out in fine print on the backside of all 4 copies.

Two (count'em) people actually tried to read the backside.

Both gave up after less than a minute.

Both were lawyers.
 

SimpleTheater

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Secondly, I think absolutely it's the responsibility of Government to regulate on such matters as support, warranty and fitness for purpose. Leave it to the market, and we get the obscenity of Nordost cables! I for one would like to see much more Government regulation and standards setting, not less.

S.
We'll just have to agree to disagree, as I believe it would cripple innovation. Like this really stupid EU regulation, regulating charging cables:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/17/app...lightning-charge-cable-amid-new-eu-rules.html

What about a wireless charging phone, which would be extremely environmentally friendly - not so with the above gov't rule demanding ALL phones use the same charging cables. Or a two year jail sentence for claiming water prevents dehydration? (link)

Just my 2¢
 
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RayDunzl

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I for one would like to see much more Government regulation and standards setting, not less.

Unfortunately once the Government gets involved, whatever they decide tends to apply to everyone, not just the ones who think what was enacted was a good idea.

Can't you make an informed choice on your own?
 
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