Sennheiser HD560S Review (Headphone)

[Robbo99999]

I wonder if something out there is using that fixture still and taking measurements

Well, Amir & Oratory's GRAS rigs are pretty close to the pinna used by Harman in their research, so the current main approach is to take GRAS measurements from people like Amir/Crin/Oratory and EQ them to the Harman Curve - it's pretty valid really. I think Sean Olive sometimes uses the original measurement rig and sometimes posts measurements using it in Twitter for example....I think, not totally sure.

 

[staticV3]

I wonder if something out there is using that fixture still and taking measurements

Do you mean Welti's custom pinna that was used to develop the Harman headphone target?

Dr. Olive over on Twitter is still using it for some of his measurements.
Annoyingly he sometimes uses the custom pinna, other times GRAS's anthropomorphic KB500x pinna, and never notes which one was used for which measurement.

 

[staticV3]

so the current main approach is to take GRAS measurements from people like Amir/Crin/Oratory and EQ them to the Harman Curve - it's pretty valid really.

Is it though?

Blue is the pinna that Amir, oratory and co are using.
Source

 

[Robbo99999]

Is it though?
View attachment 283451
Blue is the pinna that Amir, oratory and co are using.
Source

It's not perfect, but it's the best we've got! Has anybody measured loads of different models of headphones comparing the response between the two, and then perhaps charted an average difference chart? I could imagine the variation being a bit different depending on which model of headphone was used, so choosing just one headphone to test probably isn't the best comparison.

 

[MayaTlab]

It's not perfect, but it's the best we've got! Has anybody measured loads of different models of headphones comparing the response between the two, and then perhaps charted an average difference chart? I could imagine the variation being a bit different depending on which model of headphone was used, so choosing just one headphone to test probably isn't the best comparison.

I recall that we already discussed it here : https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-on-kemar-but-which-pinna？.36240/post-1468193

 

[Robbo99999]

I recall that we already discussed it here : https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/i-know-harman-research-is-based-on-kemar-but-which-pinna？.36240/post-1468193

Indeed, thankyou. You blind me with graphs. Just a tip, back in that thread you could encapsulate your main point/aim with an easy to understand sentence & then proceed to show your information....back in that thread you confused the hell out of me and I consistently replied to you trying to summarise what the point was that you were making so as to understand what you were getting at, eventually I managed to summarise what you were saying into about one or two sentences - so start with the summary & then show the information it'll be less confusing & easier to understand for everyone - people will be able to see the wood for the trees. It is good information from you though, valuable, so thanks.
I took the following from your post:

So on average there's very little difference between the customised pinna and the one that is used by Oratory/Amir/Crin (apart from above 6kHz), although there are some substantial differences if you pick out individual headphones - and the large over ears had less variation between the two.....I remember what you were saying now. (And because that was you comparing Oratory's measurements with Harmans then you've got the variable of unit to unit variation that you mentioned in there too, so there's bound to be some samples that don't match well, so the average line which you've highlighted is a lot more significant than the individual traces - the individual traces show a greater inaccuracy between the two different pinna than there really is in reality). Like I said though, the GRAS of Amir/Oratory/Crin is the best we've got at the moment, so we have to live with those differences.

 

[Robbo99999]

This headphone is about the lowest price it's ever been in the UK, £139 today on Amazon!

For sure worth it at £169, and even more so at £139! About the best time you could buy this headphone!

 

[asrUser]

How much better is HD660S than this? As far as I've read the soundstage and bass of HD560S should be better?

 

[Robbo99999]

How much better is HD660S than this? As far as I've read the soundstage and bass of HD560S should be better?

I might have discussed this a number of pages back or in another HD560s thread, or maybe an HD660s thread, but HD560s should be better as frequency response is a bit of a mess in HD660s. HD660s doesn't have much bass and the treble is more of a mess:

Yep, harder to EQ than the HD560s, and very deficient in bass. Additionally HD660s doesn't have angled pads or angled drivers so it's more similar to the HD600/650/6XX in that respect, so possible that soundstage won't be as good vs the HD560s.

 

[pk500]

You just better hope you're not sensitive to the treble spike in the HD 560s. If it hits you in the wrong spot (as it did me), it hits hard.

The 560s is a decent choice and good value for money if you can tolerate the treble spike, which I suppose can be tamed by EQ. But the can also is very bland and sterile due to its devotion to neutrality.

It's also not tolerant at ALL of poorly recorded tracks. The 560s is a magnifying glass -- it will let you hear almost exactly what was recorded, mixed and mastered. That's a good thing with many tracks and styles of music. It's a bad thing for others.

I sold my 560s because of the treble spike and because it didn't work very well with any rock tracks after about 1990, when the loudness wars started to infect studios. Sadly, that's a malaise that still exists.

 

[Robbo99999]

You just better hope you're not sensitive to the treble spike in the HD 560s. If it hits you in the wrong spot (as it did me), it hits hard.

The 560s is a decent choice and good value for money if you can tolerate the treble spike, which I suppose can be tamed by EQ. But the can also is very bland and sterile due to its devotion to neutrality.

It's also not tolerant at ALL of poorly recorded tracks. The 560s is a magnifying glass -- it will let you hear almost exactly what was recorded, mixed and mastered. That's a good thing with many tracks and styles of music. It's a bad thing for others.

I sold my 560s because of the treble spike and because it didn't work very well with any rock tracks after about 1990, when the loudness wars started to infect studios. Sadly, that's a malaise that still exists.

As you say, you can EQ it, but I find the HD560s without EQ not too bad really, it's useable, I prefer it with EQ though.

 

[solderdude]

How much better is HD660S than this? As far as I've read the soundstage and bass of HD560S should be better?

They are rather different.
HD660S2 is warmer and laidback and could do with a little bit more in the upper mids/lower treble.
HD560S is brighter in upper mids/more forward and needs the upper mids/lower treble lowered.
HD660S2 is 'smoother' and 'lower distortion' sounding.
HD560S is a bit better in stereo-width.
HD660S2 is slightly better at creating a solid stereo image (pinpointing of instruments)
HD660S2 feels more solid/premium when holding it.
HD560S single sided cable. HD660S2 dual sided entry.
HD660S2 also comes with Pentaconn cable.
HD560S2 is much cheaper so is much higher VFM
HD560S is more sensitive

 

[usern]

How much better is HD660S than this? As far as I've read the soundstage and bass of HD560S should be better?

I have 660S and 560S - 560S has better performance (goes louder, lower distortion, easier to EQ), 660S has better build quality. 660S is only worth if you want sturdier headphone and you can find it at deep discount.

 

[Fregly]

I think non eq'd the 6xx is the least compromised, and the best buy overall of the Senn 6, and 560.

 

[asrUser]

Can this headphone only be powered Single Ended? I have no idea why I found a 4 pole aftermarket cable on AE https://aliexpress.com/item/1005005540737789.html

 

[solderdude]

You can also use it balanced. You would need a balanced (aftermarket) cable though like the one you linked to.

 

[asrUser]

I see. I thought only headphones with right and left connectors are viable for balanced.

 

[staticV3]

I see. I thought only headphones with right and left connectors are viable for balanced.

You need four contacts between headphone and headphone cable for balanced operation.
Whether it's two per earcup, or all four in one earcup doesn't matter.

 

[asrUser]

I've read about a (stealth) revision to HD560S or other Sennheiser. Do you know something about it?

 

[staticV3]

I've read about a (stealth) revision to HD560S or other Sennheiser. Do you know something about it?

New version of Sennheiser HD 560S (!)

A new version of Sennheiser HD 560S has arrived. The big question is, does it sound (or measure) differently ? In a post on Reddit, a user has posted the following:

www.audiosciencereview.com