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Seek for KRK Monitor Self-Generated Noise Help and Subwoofer Recommendation

ENDzZ

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Have met two problems with my home studio monitors, hope somebody can help me out, thanks:
1. The self-generated noise level of my pair of KRK ROKIT 8 G4 is really high. It was so loud that I could hear the noise from the whole room, and couldn't sleep. Have Anyone met the same problem with me? And for me, an imperfect solution is to lower the level to -12dB. Yet I think this is kind of unprofessional, right? I mean for a standard setup, monitors should be set to +4 dBu (equivalent to 0 dB in KRK), and also a 12 dB reduction would cause sorts of fidelity issue. Not really satisfied.
2. Has anyone tried subwoofers from KRK, do those ones have similar kind of high-level noise like their monitors? I'm considering adding a subwoofer to my home studio to set up a 2.1 system, I'm now looking at KRK S10.4/Genelec 7040A, 7050C. Could someone give me a recommendation on those or other subwoofers? My budget would be about or lower than 1,000 $.
 
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Somafunk

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I had KRK Rokit 7 G4 and the hiss was apparent with no audio whilst sat at my desk but not intrusive or noticeable when audio was playing, also had the KRK S10 sub, very decent for the money, no hiss and the preset settings for use with the G4’s was good.
 

Joachim Herbert

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Had an S10. No noise issues.
 

DVDdoug

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And for me, an imperfect solution is to lower the level to -12dB. Yet I think this is kind of unprofessional, right? I mean for a standard setup, monitors should be set to +4 dBu (equivalent to 0 dB in KRK), and also a 12 dB reduction would cause sorts of fidelity issue.
If it goes loud enough at -12dB the sound quality will be BETTER without the noise. ;)

And as a rule, you want to keep the signal as high as possible (without distortion) through the chain for the best signal-to-noise ratio and then attenuate/volume control at the last possible/practical place to reduce the signal and noise together.
 
OP
ENDzZ

ENDzZ

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If it goes loud enough at -12dB the sound quality will be BETTER without the noise. ;)

And as a rule, you want to keep the signal as high as possible (without distortion) through the chain for the best signal-to-noise ratio and then attenuate/volume control at the last possible/practical place to reduce the signal and noise together.
Thanks for helping me correct a misconception. The signal is actually loud enough at -12dB. And at -12dB, I still need to turn the level of the audio interface to -24dB. So, I would say it’s a pretty good solution to do the attenuation on the monitors.
 
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OP
ENDzZ

ENDzZ

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Got a KRK S12.4 Subwoofer finally. There is no noise, and the effect is nice.
 

trinitronx

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1. The self-generated noise level of my pair of KRK ROKIT 8 G4 is really high.
It would be helpful to define what you mean by "self-generated noise" here. Is it like a white noise hiss? Or perhaps it's a 60Hz "buzz" or "hum"?

If it sounds like a white noise hiss, then this is likely the noise floor of the device itself, also known as the "Johnson–Nyquist noise", or simply "thermal noise". There is no way to completely eliminate this particular kind of noise. However, operating the equipment at lower temperatures can reduce it, as the noise power density is a function of temperature multiplied by the Boltzmann constant. (Avg. Power Density = 4*
k_B
*T*Δ where
k_B
= 1.380649 × 10-23 m2 kg s-2 K-1)

To work around the thermal noise, generally it's wise to keep signal levels at a much higher dB level than the noise, and adjust gain on the amplifier or powered speakers such that the noise is not audible or barely audible compared to the desired audio signal level.

If the noise is more like a "buzz" or "hum", then it is likely due to some external electromagnetic interference on the audio signal lines. Most likely, this is due to a ground loop and the electro-Magnetically induced EMF and current in a loop of wire enclosing the changing magnetic flux lines. Usually it's either 50Hz or 60Hz plus harmonic multiples of those frequencies, which comes from the AC mains current from nearby premises wiring or power cables.

Sometimes there can be other noise sources in the audio range also. For example, if there are powerful nearby radio transmitters or even hobbyist RF transmitters close enough nearby, noise due to these sources can also be picked up in audio lines.

To remedy electromagnetic noise issues on the audio lines, usually you can use "balanced" (as in "balanced wheatstone bridge") interconnections to carry the audio signal. Additionally, differential signaling can also help with this. XLR connections or balanced mono-TRS cabling generally does both of these things, as long as the equipment is designed correctly. In the worst case scenario where unbalanced (RCA, single stereo-TRS, or mono-TS) connections are needed, an inline audio transformer (a.k.a. "ground loop isolator") can be used. Using an audio transformer satisfies the requirements of "balancing the bridge" of the "wheatstone bridge" circuit formed by interconnecting two pieces of audio gear by simply pushing the impedance on the receiver end into the MegaOhm range. This effectively makes the much lower transmitter-side impedance (and slight imbalances due to component tolerance) less significant. Therefore the ratio between receiver-side and sender-side impedances is effectively balanced across the bridge circuit lines.

Finally, a few general rules of thumb:

  • Avoid coiling audio signal cables
    • The number of turns can increase electro-Magnetic coupling, just like in a transformer winding!
    • Even a single loop can enclose magnetic flux lines, resulting in an induced EMF around the loop
    • Use the shortest cable between the two points as possible
    • If a cable is still too long, wrap it back and forth as an S-turn (two U-turns at each end) to reduce the possible loop area and reverse the direction of current flow such that fields and induced EMF cancel out as best as they possibly can.
      • For more information about directionality of the fields & currents, look into Faraday's Law and Lenz's Law & the "right-hand rule".
  • Keep audio cables away from any nearby power cables (if possible)
    • The electromagnetic field strength is proportional to distance away from the noise source
  • Avoid parallel cable runs between audio and power cables
    • If you are constrained by space and geometry to run audio cables near to AC power cables, do so at right angles
    • Right angles will reduce the electromagnetic coupling between the cables
  • Shielded cables (without drain wire) are better against noise than unshielded cables
  • Twisted pair cables also perform better than those without twisted pair signal wires
Hope this helps!
 
OP
ENDzZ

ENDzZ

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Thanks for the explanation. The noise I'm facing is like a really high level white noise hiss.
It would be helpful to define what you mean by "self-generated noise" here. Is it like a white noise hiss? Or perhaps it's a 60Hz "buzz" or "hum"?

If it sounds like a white noise hiss, then this is likely the noise floor of the device itself, also known as the "Johnson–Nyquist noise", or simply "thermal noise". There is no way to completely eliminate this particular kind of noise. However, operating the equipment at lower temperatures can reduce it, as the noise power density is a function of temperature multiplied by the Boltzmann constant. (Avg. Power Density = 4*
k_B
*T*Δ where
k_B
= 1.380649 × 10-23 m2 kg s-2 K-1)

To work around the thermal noise, generally it's wise to keep signal levels at a much higher dB level than the noise, and adjust gain on the amplifier or powered speakers such that the noise is not audible or barely audible compared to the desired audio signal level.

If the noise is more like a "buzz" or "hum", then it is likely due to some external electromagnetic interference on the audio signal lines. Most likely, this is due to a ground loop and the electro-Magnetically induced EMF and current in a loop of wire enclosing the changing magnetic flux lines. Usually it's either 50Hz or 60Hz plus harmonic multiples of those frequencies, which comes from the AC mains current from nearby premises wiring or power cables.

Sometimes there can be other noise sources in the audio range also. For example, if there are powerful nearby radio transmitters or even hobbyist RF transmitters close enough nearby, noise due to these sources can also be picked up in audio lines.

To remedy electromagnetic noise issues on the audio lines, usually you can use "balanced" (as in "balanced wheatstone bridge") interconnections to carry the audio signal. Additionally, differential signaling can also help with this. XLR connections or balanced mono-TRS cabling generally does both of these things, as long as the equipment is designed correctly. In the worst case scenario where unbalanced (RCA, single stereo-TRS, or mono-TS) connections are needed, an inline audio transformer (a.k.a. "ground loop isolator") can be used. Using an audio transformer satisfies the requirements of "balancing the bridge" of the "wheatstone bridge" circuit formed by interconnecting two pieces of audio gear by simply pushing the impedance on the receiver end into the MegaOhm range. This effectively makes the much lower transmitter-side impedance (and slight imbalances due to component tolerance) less significant. Therefore the ratio between receiver-side and sender-side impedances is effectively balanced across the bridge circuit lines.

Finally, a few general rules of thumb:

  • Avoid coiling audio signal cables
    • The number of turns can increase electro-Magnetic coupling, just like in a transformer winding!
    • Even a single loop can enclose magnetic flux lines, resulting in an induced EMF around the loop
    • Use the shortest cable between the two points as possible
    • If a cable is still too long, wrap it back and forth as an S-turn (two U-turns at each end) to reduce the possible loop area and reverse the direction of current flow such that fields and induced EMF cancel out as best as they possibly can.
      • For more information about directionality of the fields & currents, look into Faraday's Law and Lenz's Law & the "right-hand rule".
  • Keep audio cables away from any nearby power cables (if possible)
    • The electromagnetic field strength is proportional to distance away from the noise source
  • Avoid parallel cable runs between audio and power cables
    • If you are constrained by space and geometry to run audio cables near to AC power cables, do so at right angles
    • Right angles will reduce the electromagnetic coupling between the cables
  • Shielded cables (without drain wire) are better against noise than unshielded cables
  • Twisted pair cables also perform better than those without twisted pair signal wires
Hope this helps!
 

trinitronx

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Joined
Jan 29, 2024
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Thanks for the explanation. The noise I'm facing is like a really high level white noise hiss.
Ok, yes this sounds like the "thermal noise" (a.k.a. Johnson–Nyquist noise). I've observed similar noise from my KRK RP8 (gen 2) monitor speakers, as well as PreSonus R80's, and even Neumann KH-120 II monitors. Workaround is as I mentioned above: Turn down the powered speaker's internal gain until you can barely hear the white noise "hiss" when no input signal is sent to them. It's OK if you can hear it only when placing your ear directly close to the speaker cones, just try to minimize it when heard from your listening position. Then, turn up the gain for any signal you're sending to the speakers (e.g. at sending device end as in "gain staging") to compensate.
 
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