Rythmik L12 Subwoofer Review

[radio3]

Has anyone heard the KEF R400B? Just curious as it's a somewhat comparable subwoofer in terms of size, SPL, and extension. I have heard that it's very "musical". I'm as skeptical when I hear that as anyone else here, but it does have opposing woofers which I wonder if might actually provide at least a theoretical explanation for that.

What intrigues me about opposing woofer subs is the opportunity they provide to put multiple subwoofers at different heights. I wonder how much it would improve bass consistency between seated and standing positions if I had not only a subwoofers at one height (i.e., floor) but also another one or two up near the ceiling on top of a bookshelf or tucked away on a shelf.

 

[LTig]

1. Everyone gets personally insulted if someone (or a receiver) implies that their speakers are anything but large. Which means they put at least their main speakers, and often also the center if it is even moderately sized, to Large. Which is a bad idea. But who would admit to have SMALL speakers? Calling this small/large is the worst naming ever. It should have been "enable / disable crossver" or something.

Yep - you must set all speakers to small (regardless of size) if you want to highpass them (get rid of low bass). At least my old AVP (Marantz 7701) does not highpass the mains when they are set to large. I fell in this trap as well and wondered when I increased SPL the first time that the mains were overloaded and the sub was silent. I had to ask at the shop to find the answer since the manual - although large - was not helpful at all.

 

[RichB]

[*]Everyone gets personally insulted if someone (or a receiver) implies that their speakers are anything but large.

There are a whole group of people on the AVS Rythmik thread who think the Rytmik L12 is small. 3 or 4 are needed at a minimum.

- Rich

 

[DonH56]

There are a whole group of people on the AVS Rythmik thread who think the Rytmik L12 is small. 3 or 4 are needed at a minimum.

- Rich

I have for many years now opined they should have labeled it "bass management on/off".

I have four tiny little 12" subs to go with my "small" speakers.

 

[RichB]

I have for many years now opined they should have labeled it "bass management on/off".

I have four tiny little 12" subs to go with my "small" speakers.

Bass Management On/OFF would be great.
Still, I would probably use off for the demure Salon2s until I get more subs.

- Rich

 

[3dbinCanada]

People need to read their owners manual. If the mañuals are unclear, then experiment. You would think that if people spend money on these devices that they would figure out the best way to make them work.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

Has anyone heard the KEF R400B? Just curious as it's a somewhat comparable subwoofer in terms of size, SPL, and extension. I have heard that it's very "musical". I'm as skeptical when I hear that as anyone else here, but it does have opposing woofers which I wonder if might actually provide at least a theoretical explanation for that.

What intrigues me about opposing woofer subs is the opportunity they provide to put multiple subwoofers at different heights. I wonder how much it would improve bass consistency between seated and standing positions if I had not only a subwoofers at one height (i.e., floor) but also another one or two up near the ceiling on top of a bookshelf or tucked away on a shelf.

Only real benefit of dual driver is more output without increasing width by much. Dual 9" is like single 12.5". With that small WAF cabinet, most of the gains will be in the mid bass...

 

[RichB]

Only real benefit of dual driver is more output without increasing width by much. Dual 9" is like single 12.5". With that small WAF cabinet, most of the gains will be in the mid bass...

I have two custom Rythmik E22Es are on order from Salksound. They have dual 12" woofers and the cabinets are 14" (W), 30 (H), 16.5 (D).
Dual driver subs are a great solution.

- Rich

 

[LTig]

Only real benefit of dual driver is more output without increasing width by much. Dual 9" is like single 12.5".

I think not. Two 9.5" woofers may have the same area but the single 12" should have more linear extension and hence can reach higher max SPL.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

I think not. Two 9.5" woofers may have the same area but the single 12" should have more linear extension and hence can reach higher max SPL.

It's close enough. I would cross shop:

Dual 9" vs single 12"
Dual 12" vs single 18"
Dual 15" vs ???

 

[radio3]

I have two custom Rythmik E22Es are on order from Salksound. They have dual 12" woofers and the cabinets are 14" (W), 30 (H), 16.5 (D).
Dual driver subs are a great solution.

- Rich

What is it that you like about them so much? I like that they don't shake, making it possible to put them in unusual locations such as up on furniture, but I assume that's not what you are referring to.

 

[SimpleTheater]

What is it that you like about them so much? I like that they don't shake, making it possible to put them in unusual locations such as up on furniture, but I assume that's not what you are referring to.

Because of their design, dual subs mitigate some of the location issues. Arguably, you’re putting two opposed subs in the same location, so nulls and peaks will be mitigated substantially. In my setup they wouldn’t work because of my very limited locations, but if they can work for you they are worth the extra expense.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Yep - you must set all speakers to small (regardless of size) if you want to highpass them (get rid of low bass). At least my old AVP (Marantz 7701) does not highpass the mains when they are set to large. I fell in this trap as well and wondered when I increased SPL the first time that the mains were overloaded and the sub was silent. I had to ask at the shop to find the answer since the manual - although large - was not helpful at all.

Interesting.
I have my main stereo speakers as the fronts for the rare occasions I watch a film. They were carefully positioned to minimise room excitation decades ago and the bass if fairly even without correction.
I set them as large and with the sub I had always thought I was, in effect, getting the bass benefit of 3 subs, though two are effectively positioned under the main L and F speakers.
Is that a bad idea? The room response seems pretty good corrected that way.

 

[jhaider]

Only real benefit of dual driver is more output without increasing width by much.

There is an additional benefit to the dual opposed configuration: force cancellation. The sub won’t walk, and you can put stuff on top of it without fear that it will get shaken off.

I am not convinced that it’s anything like a second sub, however. Sometimes each driver has its own drive, delay, and EQ, which can all be manipulated for smoother (but overall less) output. Current MartinLogan electrostats do this.

 

[jhaider]

Interesting.
I have my main stereo speakers as the fronts for the rare occasions I watch a film. They were carefully positioned to minimise room excitation decades ago and the bass if fairly even without correction.
I set them as large and with the sub I had always thought I was, in effect, getting the bass benefit of 3 subs, though two are effectively positioned under the main L and F speakers.
Is that a bad idea? The room response seems pretty good corrected that way.

Maybe. Do you have it set on “double bass?” That sends main channel bass to mains and subs. Otherwise I think the sub channel is only getting the “point one” signal.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Maybe. Do you have it set on “double bass?” That sends main channel bass to mains and subs. Otherwise I think the sub channel is only getting the “point one” signal.

I use Audyssey and tell it I have one sub. I have no idea how it works after that!

 

[RichB]

What is it that you like about them so much? I like that they don't shake, making it possible to put them in unusual locations such as up on furniture, but I assume that's not what you are referring to.

Here are my reasons for selecting the custom cabinets for Rythmik E22es:

• Custom mahogany and piano block cabinets match the Ultima2s
• Dual 12" drivers provide high output - somewhere between a 15 and 18" subwoofer
• Rytmik servo subs have measured lower distortion and freedom from long term output compression
• At 14" wide, they can fit in the limited space available.
• Analog PEQ and other adjustments allow tuning to address at least 1 room mode without incurring A/D D/A delay.
• Price for each custom subwoofer is considerably less than than a JL Fathom F112 that also had high output and small footprint.

The downside is they will take a while to arrive, likely, October.
Rythmik is likely to make the E22es in piano black a standard product in the same time-frame.

- Rich

P.S. Here are the measurements for the Rythmik sealed 18" subwoofer: https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5ad778f92d279a0004669a18?_k=t5aeiq

 

[RichB]

Because of their design, dual subs mitigate some of the location issues. Arguably, you’re putting two opposed subs in the same location, so nulls and peaks will be mitigated substantially. In my setup they wouldn’t work because of my very limited locations, but if they can work for you they are worth the extra expense.

There is an additional benefit to the dual opposed configuration: force cancellation. The sub won’t walk, and you can put stuff on top of it without fear that it will get shaken off.

I am not convinced that it’s anything like a second sub, however. Sometimes each driver has its own drive, delay, and EQ, which can all be manipulated for smoother (but overall less) output. Current MartinLogan electrostats do this.

Rythmik has the G22 dual 12" opposed subwoofer. There is a dual opposed 15" subwoofer in the works.

My subs are based on the E22 which is dual front firing 12" subwoofer that are also likely to be a standard offering. I like the look of tall thin subwoofers.

- Rich

 

[avanti1960]

I see this thread is slightly old, but I think there are some really good points in the last few posts. I happen to have been around visiting a lot of people listening to their setups lately, and there are a couple of pretty striking findings that confirm a lot of what is being said here.

1. Almost no one has a basic understanding of the settings on their sub, or how they're supposed to set them when everything is now basically handeled by their receivers.
2. Many don't understand that they have to re-run calibration if they move stuff. Some even move to a different house and still don't re-run the calibration. They think they've calibrated for the system, not the room.
3. Most receivers do all sorts of weird things (way too low crossovers, set speakers to large that has no business being set to large)
4. Almost no one goes to the length of manually measuring in their room because why would they. A dwindling minority has that kind of interest in these things.
5. Everyone gets personally insulted if someone (or a receiver) implies that their speakers are anything but large. Which means they put at least their main speakers, and often also the center if it is even moderately sized, to Large. Which is a bad idea. But who would admit to have SMALL speakers? Calling this small/large is the worst naming ever. It should have been "enable / disable crossver" or something.
6. The user interface of most room calibration systems are horrible, obviously designed by engineers, leaving Average Joe scratching his head trying to figure it out. And don't ask him to read the manual of the receiver. It's like 60 pages with a tiny font and 90% of it is useless information and / or incomprehensible to the aforementioned Average Joe.
   
   So I can confirm that most people who have subs don't have very good sounding systems. Because they've been unable to properly integrate it, and as mentioned by others - as a consequence of this they typically don't even use their subs for music, because it sounds better without it. Which is sad, because it could have sounded awesome if they've been able to set it up properly. So there's a pretty big potential here if we're able to somehow make this whole process more intuitive.

agreed. integrating a subwoofer is literally a skill and requires training, proper tools and practice. the good news is if you get good at it you won't need DSP or calibration and your system will sound amazing.

 

[Trouble Maker]

@RichB Rythmik seems to already have a dual vertical 12" sub in the L22, but it is the paper cone version. Is this 'E22' the same but with the aluminium cones? Kind of like the difference from the L12 to the F12?

I would love to see Rythmik have more subs available in painted gloss black. If I put together another system when I get back home it will probably be dual 12" sealed from them, likely L12 due to size/cost but those don't come in gloss/piano black. You have to step up to the F12SE at $1099 and 50% larger volume for a that finish option. They do have a ridiculous amount of options from a size/feature standpoint at a nice price-point spread so finish options is a very little thing to complain about.