Right amplifier for Concerta2 M16 but eco/ wallet friendly power consumption

[thevoid]

Hi! I am looking for an amp to complement The Revel Concerta2 speakers. The Cambridge Audio AXR100 is number 1 on my list, but I got second thoughts. I tend to keep my work environment eco-friendly, low-power consumption etc I prefer to use mobile devices and keep energy costs as low as I can.

Having said that the amp has to do its thing and give the speakers power they need to shine. Plus somehow complement the speakers signature/ go well with the speakers sound signature.

Is there anything in ~500USD budget I can buy to be happy with the sound and keep the energy consuption on low levels? Is the Cambridge Audio AXR a power hungry device and what is it's energy consumption compared to some class D devices like (10 times more, 50x more)?

Here are some amps I got recommended somewhere along the way:

Yamaha A-S301
Cyrus ONE
NAD C338 (is it class D?)
Yamaha WXA 50 (is it class D?)
ARCAM SOLO UNO
Audiolab 6000A

Anything else I should be considering?

Please forgive my ignorance. Its the beginning of the road for me. Thank You!

 

[3125b]

Unfortunately there is almost no data on low-output power consumtion. Most of the time your amp will put out less than 1Wrms, especially in nearfield use.
As a rule of thumb expect a Class A/B amp to draw 10-20% of its rated output power in idle, so a 2x100W amp/AVR will draw about 40W when playing music at low volume.
Class D with SMPS can be a lot more efficient, but not every model is. Unfortunately reviewers tendto not measure this despite it being very quick and easy.

I have measured my SMSL DA-9, it draws only 2.6W playing at low volume with my speakers (maybe 100mW or so power output). That is very good, probably the best I've seen.

You'll probably have to wait for people who own the amps you are interested in to provide those measurements. Some people on this forum might be able to.

 

[thevoid]

Thank You 3125b! That's why I am looking for some class D amps, but have to little knowledge which will in fact be more efficient. What I can't understand is how do You power Your speakers with an amp that outputs so little power. As I read in spec the Concerta2 need an amp that is 50-120W. How to You power speakers with an amp that is rated in mW and not Wats?

If anybody has some information on those amps I mentioned I would really love to hear it

 

[Astoneroad]

Sdl
Ask Dylan, he'll be able to answer any questions about this amp.

 

[CDMC]

In the interest of science, I just ran some measurements with my Watt meter. The amp is a IOM hypex 252mp amplifier (i.e. a great sized amp for your speakers with plenty of power at 150w/ch into 8 ohms, 250 w/ch into 4 oms). This is on my desktop system, so speakers are the Philharmonics with similar sensitivity and size to your speaker. The photos are no signal, then at reference level of 75db peak, then cranked way up, about 95db peak at 3 feet.

Get something like one of these:

IOM i250 - IOM

Stereo amplifier based on a Ncore 250 watt stereo module with passive volume control and selectable 3 channel input. By controlling the volume via a real (non-software) knob you can prevent driving your speakers at maximum power by accident. For volume control we use an Alps RK27 blue velvet...

internetofmusic.nl

Nord One INT-C NC252MP Stereo Integrated Amplifier

SPECIFICATION (Per Channel) • Standard Stereo Case (optional SE case) • Hypex NCore NC252MP twin channel Module • Nord Switchable RCA-XLR input board • Auto sensing 100-240V mains input operation • 0.12W standby operation • 650W Main PSU • 47K Ohms Input Impedance, low output...

nordacoustics.co.uk

and I can't see you pushing beyond 30 watts consumption for an integrated amplifier unless you are playing DJ for a party.

 

[DVDdoug]

A class-D amplifier could use more power when idle (or at very-low levels) than a Class A/B amp. But both should use "insignificant" idle power. At maximum power the class-D amplifier is much more efficient with most of the power going to the speakers.

If you are interested in energy usage you really should get a Kill-A-Watt or something similar. (I bought one recently to troubleshoot something non-audio related.)

Perhaps "every Watt counts" but as a rule, amplifiers aren't "power hungry" appliances. And most of us don't listen 24 hours a day, and if we do it's not at full-power. And it is a luxury so you are always "wasting energy"... You don't need an amplifier or music at all...

A 100W amplifier putting-out 100W on the peaks is normally only putting 10-20W on average. Of course it consumes more because it's not 100% efficient. Class A or tube amps can use a LOT more power. A class A amplifier burns energy even when idle by-design. That's what defines them as class A. And tubes have heaters... They don't work when their internal temperature is room-temperature.

Speakers also vary in efficiency (usually a "sensitivity" spec). The actual efficiency of speakers is poor (usually less than 10% of the electrical energy is converted to sound) so that's usually more about loudness with a given amplifier than about energy savings,. But it could be a consideration if you can get-by with a lower-power amplifier.

What really uses energy in a house is heating or cooling, including an oven, water heaters, clothes dryer, hair driers, refrigerators... But at home you only use an oven a small percentage of time, and a hair dryer even less.

 

[thevoid]

In the interest of science, I just ran some measurements with my Watt meter. The amp is a IOM hypex 252mp amplifier (i.e. a great sized amp for your speakers with plenty of power at 150w/ch into 8 ohms, 250 w/ch into 4 oms. This is on my desktop system, so speakers are the Philharmonics with similar sensitivity and size to your speaker. The photos are no signal, then at reference level of 75db peak, then cranked way up, about 95db peak at 3 feet.

View attachment 277537

View attachment 277538


View attachment 277539

Get something like one of these:

IOM i250 - IOM

Stereo amplifier based on a Ncore 250 watt stereo module with passive volume control and selectable 3 channel input. By controlling the volume via a real (non-software) knob you can prevent driving your speakers at maximum power by accident. For volume control we use an Alps RK27 blue velvet...

internetofmusic.nl

Nord One INT-C NC252MP Stereo Integrated Amplifier

SPECIFICATION (Per Channel) • Standard Stereo Case (optional SE case) • Hypex NCore NC252MP twin channel Module • Nord Switchable RCA-XLR input board • Auto sensing 100-240V mains input operation • 0.12W standby operation • 650W Main PSU • 47K Ohms Input Impedance, low output...

nordacoustics.co.uk

and I can't see you pushing beyond 30 watts consumption for an integrated amplifier unless you are playing DJ for a party.

Thank You for taking time to measure it. Hope it will be helpful to others as well. As see the values on the photos and this is something I can take Also this is better than some random and false by design calculations based on the Internet. Thank You once again - going to look for the amps You suggest right now.

 

[thevoid]

A class-D amplifier could use more power when idle (or at very-low levels) than a Class A/B amp. But both should use "insignificant" idle power. At maximum power the class-D amplifier is much more efficient with most of the power going to the speakers.

If you are interested in energy usage you really should get a Kill-A-Watt or something similar. (I bought one recently to troubleshoot something non-audio related.)

Perhaps "every Watt counts" but as a rule, amplifiers aren't "power hungry" appliances. And most of us don't listen 24 hours a day, and if we do it's not at full-power. And it is a luxury so you are always "wasting energy"... You don't need an amplifier or music at all...

A 100W amplifier putting-out 100W on the peaks is normally only putting 10-20W on average. Of course it consumes more because it's not 100% efficient. Class A or tube amps can use a LOT more power. A class A amplifier burns energy even when idle by-design. That's what defines them as class A. And tubes have heaters... They don't work when their internal temperature is room-temperature.

Speakers also vary in efficiency (usually a "sensitivity" spec). The actual efficiency of speakers is poor (usually less than 10% of the electrical energy is converted to sound) so that's usually more about loudness with a given amplifier than about energy savings,. But it could be a consideration if you can get-by with a lower-power amplifier.

What really uses energy in a house is heating or cooling, including an oven, water heaters, clothes dryer, hair driers, refrigerators... But at home you only use an oven a small percentage of time, and a hair dryer even less.

Hi! Lots of good points. As a person who don't know how devices operate and what are their contribution to the house power consumption I try to keep it low. But You are right with wasting energy on listening to music. Also "amplifiers are not power hungry appliances" calms me down a little


Thank You CDMC and DVDdoug! You answers really addresed my doubts. Unfortunatelly those amps suggested by CDMC are not available in my country. As I will be buying second hand the availability on the market is a key factor here.

 

[CDMC]

The good news is that you can easily purchase one of the many available NC252 amps and use a passive preamp for the same energy draw. One of the reasons I went to Class D was to decrease my energy use, as I run my amp all day. Enjoy.

 

[3125b]

What I can't understand is how do You power Your speakers with an amp that outputs so little power.

My amp has a maximum possible output power of 50W @8R per channel. My point is that it almost never does. As you can see from @CDMC measurements, the actual difference in input power between no music playing and 75dB playback is only a couple milliwatts, and a fraction of that tiny difference is the actual difference in output power - almost always the amp does almost nothing. Still that Hypex amp draws close to 20W, just turning that power into heat.

Unfortunatelly those amps suggested by CDMC are not available in my country

Where do you live? Prices and availability vary of course, so knowing that would help a great deal.

Through a comment on another forum I found that STEREO measures idle power consumption: https://www.stereo.de/hifi-test/kategorie/vollverstaerker
Some better some worse, the bigger A/B amps tend to draw 50-80W in idle, tube amps ... let's not talk about that, and Hypex etc. class D draw 20-30W typically. If you are after good energy efficiency a class D chipamp might be the way to go although you'll have to compromise on maximum output power that way.

 

[thevoid]

Hi! yes I did some more reading and after Your comments I now have a slight idea of what we are talking about This is my first setup so I prefer to go with something more popular and available as second hand (perfect condition). I live in Poland and those amps are not available on the second hand websites that I will be buying from.

Thanks for all Your input. In the end I guess I will go with Audiolab 6000A or Cambridge CXA61 so A/B class. They both feature an idle mode which is about 0,5W consuption if I remember correctly. So it's low when its not playing and when it's playing I guess I won't be thinking about power consumption like You said @DVDdoug .

And @Astoneroad only now I have some idea what that device is Unfortunatelly its not popular/ mass device and therefore its not available through my buying channels. Also I need some more time until I will be ready to experiment with custom electronic, like this. Thank You anyways!

 

[3125b]

They both feature an idle mode which is about 0,5W consuption if I remember correctly.

They do not, that's standby ("off" after you manually switch them off) power consumption. The manufacturers do not specify idle power consumption. Idle power consumption of the 6000A is 20W (https://www.stereo.de/hifi-test/produkt/audiolab-6000a-1842). I can't find measurements for the CXA 61, but the CXA 81 draws 31.5W in idle (https://www.stereo.de/hifi-test/produkt/cambridge-audio-cxa-81-1965), the less powerful 61 probably a little less.

You can order from any EU country then should you instead decide to buy new. It's worth it to shop around for the best deal you can get, when I last visited Poland (granted, it's been a couple years) I was quite surprised how expensive consumer electronics were.

 

[thevoid]

Thanks a lot for Your answers @3125b its a bit different now I have the amp on my desk and see really what and when the stand-by is. Plus I am too much sunk in music to think about this now. I switch the unit off with the power button + the rear power supply off. There's and idle mode but I still have to find out how to set the time and lower the power consuption to the 20W. I don't yet have the speakers but I am listening to vinyls on my headphones and it sounds great. For now I don't think about the energy consuption. It will come later on.

I got the perfect condition unit for less than the other mint units were and bought it from a nice man, who also seemed to share the same passion. After a long conversation I was happy to get the amp from him, so this was not only a purchase but also meeting a nice person. Sorry for a long story but it seems that this was more personal than just power consuption. I am already happy testing the phono preamp. The speakers will come soon. I will try to do some wider (EU) search when it comes to my second amp and have just some experience in the field.

Thanks for help!

 

[jsaak]

My measurments: (measured at the socket)

Technics SU-V670 (class AB): idle, low volume: 40W
Topping MX3s (class D): standby 1,6 W , idle and low volume: 3,7W

No idea how to make friends, can not comment on that