Looking for future Stereo Amplifier and Streamer for my B&W 804s (8 Ohm) & Turntable Thorens TD2001

[SimonS]

Hi,
I'm new to this forum, so have mercy with me and please forgive any unqualified or imprecise statements.
After trying a NAD C399 on my fairly old HIFI system with a pair of B&W 804S (CD-player (Technics PG5), turntable Thorens TD2001) I was quite impressed by Class D performance. However, I didn't like the C399 AptX bluetooth reception quality (below 2m and breaking up when device is moving) and HDMI Arc restrictions (old Apple TV didn*t work). Further, the quality of remote control was below my expectations. I'll send back my C399 since this does not solve question 2 although sound is satisfying. After this mixed experience I've had a good conversation with somebody from this forum who recommended to post my question(s) in hope to get some ideas from you. One recommendation was getting a Cambridge Audio CXN V2 (using as Preamp simultaneausly) and connecting it to a AUDIOPHONICS LPA-S500NC Power Amplifier Class D Stereo Ncore NC502MP 2x500W 4 Ohm.

question 1: Which amplifier (also open for a pre- amp and power amp solution) would you recommend for this (future) setup (Streamer, Turntable, Loudspeaker, 12-14m² sound optimized room with an open side to the dinner room).
question 2: Which streamer would you recommend? I'd like to stream in good quality (Tidal / Spotify / Internet radio) and also connect my TV to it (chromecast, HDMI or HDMI Arc).

My budget is around 2k€ all in. Thanks for any hints and open for questions.
Thanks,
Simon

 

[SimonS]

Just to add: the new pre should have at least to line in (one for CD/Blu-ray and one for my phono pre/turntable).

Thanks, Simon

 

[SimonS]

Hey guys, any suggestions from your end would be super valuable.
Cheers, Simon

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi Simon,
I'll try to give you a starter for 10. I'm in the uk so prices are £GBP but they will give you an idea

First, of course, some questions ... it helps to understand what you are trying to do and what you want.
Does your CD player have a digital output? That helps as you can use it as a pure transport and plug it into a DAC.
What options do you have with your TV (you've mentioned a few) if it has an optical digital output then that makes things easier.

Getting a turntable into the equation is surprisingly tricky, a lot what you might use as a preamp are either DACs (digital input only) or are Analogue only preamps.

You could consider an Integrated Amp, not reviewed here but something like the Yamaha AS-701 (£600) is well liked here and does almost everything.

I find it hard to see past the WiiM products for streamers; cheap, very good (accept chromecast). Use their digital output into your DAC. WiiM Pro is probably a good compromise (£150) and offers EQ too.

You could go for separates: I use a WiiM streamer and a miniDSP Flex (analogue input, good DAC, robust Bluetooth, excellent EQ : £700ish) and then you need a Power Amp: that Audiophonics you mention would be great (there are other options, but nothing will sound better). You would need a phono stage too if your Thorens doesn't have one: the Cambridge Audio Duo measures well (£250) but there are very good cheaper options too

Look at the Review Index here and read some of the comments on the pieces that take your fancy

The reason for starting off by suggesting a $£600 integrated is that nothing will affect your sound more than your speakers (speaker/room interactions really). If you read up on them here, you might start to think about changing your B&W's - it's a bigger change but perhaps a better one.

See what you think, read and jump - enjoy the music

Oh, a Bluesound Node (£500?) is just as good a streamer as the WiiM but does include HDMI (at twice the price) ... or a full AVR amp will probably do everything you want too, but I don't know enough about them

 

[JeremyFife]

Just realised that we've already been speaking in another thread and you seem to be sorted now!

Enjoy

 

[Everett T]

Just note that those, as with so many of BWs speakers, are not "8ohm". It's 4 ohm down to about 3.8 at their lowest between 100hz and 500hz. The phase angle isn't too bad just be aware if you intended to crank them.

 

[Abdo]

Just note that those, as with so many of BWs speakers, are not "8ohm". It's 4 ohm down to about 3.8 at their lowest between 100hz and 500hz. The phase angle isn't too bad just be aware if you intended to crank them.Bowers & Wilkins 804S speakers

whereas the 804s are 8ohm. I even have a pair of these in the manual.

Bowers & Wilkins 804S speakers

• Specifications:
  • Configuration: 3 way/4 speakers
  • Frequency response: 35 Hz – 22 kHz
  • Impedance: 8 ohm
  • Applicable power: 50 - 250 W
  • Sensitivity: 90 dB
  • Dimensions: 109 x 220 x 325 mm
  • Weight: 18,5 kg

 

[Everett T]

whereas the 804s are 8ohm. I even have a pair of these in the manual.

Bowers & Wilkins 804S speakers

• Specifications:
  • Configuration: 3 way/4 speakers
  • Frequency response: 35 Hz – 22 kHz
  • Impedance: 8 ohm
  • Applicable power: 50 - 250 W
  • Sensitivity: 90 dB
  • Dimensions: 109 x 220 x 325 mm
  • Weight: 18,5 kg

Ok? They're still not an 8 ohm speaker, look at the impendece, it is at 4 ohms through most of the power band.

BOWERS & WILKINS 804S

Referencyjność, ekskluzywność, innowacyjność... i generalnie przewaga nad wszelaką konkurencją nowej serii 800 tworzona jest głównie ...

audio.com.pl

 

[Abdo]

Ok? They're still not an 8 ohm speaker, look at the impendece, it is at 4 ohms through most of the power band.

BOWERS & WILKINS 804S

Referencyjność, ekskluzywność, innowacyjność... i generalnie przewaga nad wszelaką konkurencją nowej serii 800 tworzona jest głównie ...

audio.com.pl

Well, I'm not very technical, I try to follow what's in the manufacturer's manual. Mine are connected to 15 years in 8. Now it's the first time I've seen someone saying that BW boxes are 4. So the way BW is selling is deceiving consumers?

 

[Everett T]

Well, I'm not very technical, I try to follow what's in the manufacturer's manual. Mine are connected to 15 years in 8. Now it's the first time I've seen someone saying that BW boxes are 4. So the way BW is selling is deceiving consumers?

A speakers impedence varies across it's frequency range, never a fixed value. For anyone listening at normal levels it won't (likely) be an issue but for those that crank the volume, these speakers can be taxing on an amplifier. This trend with B&W speakers has been the same for 25 years across most of their speakers.

I was just pointing out that while BW lists them as 8 ohms, they should be listed as a 4 ohms speaker.

 

[JustJones]

The predecessor 804 Nautilus had a similar impedance swing . They called it 8 Ohm but... I belive the 804D right after the S was the same.

From Stereophile

 

[Abdo]

A speakers impedence varies across it's frequency range, never a fixed value. For anyone listening at normal levels it won't (likely) be an issue but for those that crank the volume, these speakers can be taxing on an amplifier. This trend with B&W speakers has been the same for 25 years across most of their speakers.

I was just pointing out that while BW lists them as 8 ohms, they should be listed as a 4 ohms speaker.


View attachment 387531

So I have a Mcintosh MA6800, would you recommend switching to 4 connections on the MA6800?

 

[Everett T]

So I have a Mcintosh MA6800, would you recommend switching to 4 connections on the MA6800?

Yes, I would switch to the 4ohm tap.

 

[JustJones]

You would get a little more power which "might" help with distortion if you crank them up. It wouldn't hurt trying and see if you notice a difference, amp might run cooler.

 

[Abdo]

Thanks all support !

 

[Tom C]

I notice the Owner Manual for your unit says the 4 ohm connection is good for speakers with 4 to 8 ohms nominal impedance. So, should be safe.
McIntosh autoformers date back to the tube days, and are unusual for solid state designs. I have an MC275, which was tested by Stereophile. Measurements show both THD and power output decrease when the 4 ohm connection is used instead of the 8 ohm, and decreases further when the 2 ohm connection is used. JA then recommends you use the lowest impedance output that gives you sufficient output. With your speakers, I expect output will be high enough, and distortion low enough no matter which output you use, especially since you’ve been OK with the 8 ohm tap for 15 years!