Review and Measurements of Schiit Yggdrasil V2 DAC

[Blumlein 88]

Ganja?

Now it makes sense.

 

[derp1n]

Ganja?

I can't wait for Amir to start reviewing marijuana strains and their effect on audio perception.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I can't wait for Amir to start reviewing marijuana strains and their effect on audio perception.

Well, Amir is more into objective repeatable testing.

So, it will be something like, "the effects of Ganja strains on linearity testing".

or


Amir finally tests, the GOOD SCHIIT! and answers the question, what were those guys smoking?

 

[Frank Dernie]

I assume everyone here believes that every product should be tested fairly and accurately regardless of who makes it. The only reasons why I think someone wouldn't want to provide transparency is because they are worried others might see their inexperience (ego) or they are deliberately not measuring a product accurately. None of this is related to friends, enemies or any stupid objective/subjective "war". This relates to the only thing that matters which is accurate product measurements for consumers.

The fact is that when Amir releases a test of a competant piece of kit showing its performance limits are reasonable nobody complains. He has done plenty of these tests.
When the exact same test reveals that a bit of kit has significant shortcomings the test is sometimes called into question, particularly by owners with money involved
When this happens with a bit of kit from an ultra fashionable brand like this one there are not only a huge number more miffed owners there is a "challenge" to the status quo of fashion (maybe fashion isn't the right word but high brand image from marketing is what I mean, and brands ebb and flow in this respect).
The fact is, if the test procedure is OK for all the other kit, why is it called into question for this device? Are you expecting to find a line in the test procedure like "IF PRODUCT=SCHIIT THEN bollox up result"?


I think you are getting your knickers in a twist (I think panties in a knot is the USian version???) unnecessarily.

 

[restorer-john]

Not a myth, the sound will change over time after turn on. I have equipment that does the same.

If that is actually the case, the equipment is most likely faulty, or poorly designed.

 

[svart-hvitt]

I hope social scientists and researchers of the human mind take notice and read these Schiit threads.

In light of hard facts many people will not alter their beliefs. Some may even be more convinced than prior to new facts that Schiit is good?

This is, however, a trait of the human mind that is well documented elsewhere. But I think these Schiit threads are entertaining anecdotes that support what we already knew about the human mind.

 

[maxxevv]

I hope social scientists and researchers of the human mind take notice and read these Schiit threads.

In light of hard facts many people will not alter their beliefs. Some may even be more convinced than prior to new facts that Schiit is good?

This is, however, a trait of the human mind that is well documented elsewhere. But I think these Schiit threads are entertaining anecdotes that support what we already knew about the human mind.

The political beliefs and ideologies in the USA are probably its best (if not even worse) equivalent.

 

[svart-hvitt]

The political beliefs and ideologies in the USA are probably its best (if not even worse) equivalent.

No, I don’t agree. Politics is vague, lacking in definitions and ways to measure.

Audio has both clear definitions and measurement methods.

 

[maxxevv]

Hmm.... Flat Earthers ??

 

[svart-hvitt]

Hmm.... Flat Earthers ??

Yes. But the thing is, you meet «flat earthers» in disguise every day on topics that have nothing to do with audio or the form of the globe.

Holberg’s «The naked emperor» is a good treatment on the subject.

 

[Jinjuku]

I have been meaning to comment on this but keep forgetting. Besides Jude, Bob Smith (atomicbob) has been posting measurements. Wanted to point this flaw in his jitter measurement methodology which he keeps using on everything he tests. Here it is on Yggy V2:

I always got a kick out of the tomato throwers wrt your measurements and they pass band limit their graphs. I always thought it was simply truncated to what their hearing extends.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

Not a myth, the sound will change over time after turn on. I have equipment that does the same.

Prove it. Convincing yourself that you can hear a difference doesn't mean that there is a difference.

 

[Ron Texas]

The very mention of this site at Computer Audiophile causes Schiit owners, many of whom belong to SBAF, to go insane.

 

[mi-fu]

I hope social scientists and researchers of the human mind take notice and read these Schiit threads.

In light of hard facts many people will not alter their beliefs. Some may even be more convinced than prior to new facts that Schiit is good?

This is, however, a trait of the human mind that is well documented elsewhere. But I think these Schiit threads are entertaining anecdotes that support what we already knew about the human mind.

Probably one of the classic studies is Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.

It seems to be quite clear that many Schitt followers / believers reason in a different set of "paradigms" from most members here. By "paradigms," one can understand them as "frameworks," "perspectives," or better still "world views."

In Kuhn's argument, if one believes one set of accepted "paradigm" enough, all the anomalies can be regarded as errors (such as measurement errors, human errors, or manufacturing errors). If we take a look in our example here, it is not too surprising that, in facing undesirable anomalies, some people resort to almost magical externalities, like "warming up," "the positioning of the device," "the interference of adjacent electronics" etc.

The reason behind is simple: To brush away the anomalies as other errors, so that the paradigm will not be challenged.

Only once these anomalies accumulate a significant numbers, more people will start to take these anomalies seriously and start to question the existing paradigm. (Well... that is what science is meant to). That is exactly what Amir is doing here. Through repeated tests, Amir demonstrated that these anomalies are too hard to ignore. This lead to what Kuhn called "a state of crisis." If this continues to go on, the "perspective" of the discipline starts to shift, with different foci, different criteria of testing, different believed sets of truth.

What makes audio particularly interesting is that it is a combination of both very objective study (signals, measurements, and repeatable tests) and very subjective practice (I like what I hear / the impossibility to compare two songs at once). This is why there is a "snake oil" notion - It is really hard to prove, or disprove if one chooses to believe.

I'm new to the audio world, so I cannot say whether the Schitt followers represent a dominant "old paradigm" of audiophiles. But I just find this fascinating!!

 

[bennetng]

Prove it. Convincing yourself that you can hear a difference doesn't mean that there is a difference.

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/01/measurements-tascam-uh-7000-usb.html
Archimago has a Tascam UH-7000 and it has measurable differences after powered-on for 30 minutes

...just not a good difference.

 

[Thomas Savage]

The very mention of this site at Computer Audiophile causes Schiit owners, many of whom belong to SBAF, to go insane.

 

[Thomas Savage]

I can't wait for Amir to start reviewing marijuana strains and their effect on audio perception.

I think it’s our duty as science forum members to provide the widest sample possible , so we should all get involved in this..

It’s likely we might have to consider robust and strenuous repetition of these test , all in the intrest of Science and progressing knowledge of course.

 

[έχω δίκιο]

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/01/measurements-tascam-uh-7000-usb.html
Archimago has a Tascam UH-7000 and it has measurable differences after powered-on for 30 minutes

...just not a good difference.

1. A measurable difference isn't necessarily an audible difference, especially when all the action is down at -110dB and below, and much of it is at ultrasonic frequencies.
2. I don't dispute that a defective, or poorly designed product can significantly change during an extended "warm-up."
3. What I do question is any unsubstantiated claim like "the sound will change over time after turn on. I have equipment that does the same." There are many 'audiophiles' who claim that audio cables, and even power cables, need to be broken in and that the sound will improve over time, but it doesn't mean that it's true.

 

[bennetng]

1. A measurable difference isn't necessarily an audible difference, especially when all the action is down at -110dB and below, and much of it is at ultrasonic frequencies.
2. I don't dispute that a defective, or poorly designed product can significantly change during an extended "warm-up."
3. What I do question is any unsubstantiated claim like "the sound will change over time after turn on. I have equipment that does the same." There are many 'audiophiles' who claim that audio cables, and even power cables, need to be broken in and that the sound will improve over time, but it doesn't mean that it's true.

Eventually Archimago returned the product. If I were him, I will also do the same.

My point is not the differences are audible or not. I don't even believe I can hear the artifacts of the Yggy despite how "bad" it measured, it just proved that it doesn't worth the money.

 

[garbulky]

@amirm I think your warm up time measurements are pretty important. Would you consider repeating the measurement every week for up to say 3 weeks?