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Review and Measurements of Schiit Yggdrasil V2 DAC

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amirm

amirm

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Adding on, here is the Schiit Modi 2 Measurements:

index.php


Clearly there is a lot going on outside of 7.5 to 14.5 kHz. Notice for example the spikes at 4 and 20 kHz. Since our main tone is at 12 kHz, the jitter frequency is 8 kHz: 12 - 8 = 4. And 12+8 = 20.
 

έχω δίκιο

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Wanted to point this flaw in his jitter measurement methodology which he keeps using on everything he tests.

I think you made a typo in your annotation. Didn't you mean to write that the lower scale of the jitter plot should start at 20Hz, not 20kHz?
 
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rebbiputzmaker

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I have been meaning to comment on this but keep forgetting. Besides Jude, Bob Smith (atomicbob) has been posting measurements. Wanted to point this flaw in his jitter measurement methodology which he keeps using on everything he tests. Here it is on Yggy V2:

View attachment 13587

If you can read that, you have eaten far more carrots than I have :D. So let's pull that into photoshop and making more legible:

View attachment 13586

As we see, his graph starts at 7.5 kHz and ends at 14.5 kHz. Why? We need to see full bandwidth of audio.

As I noted there, cutting off low frequencies means we don't see power supply contributions although we can infer it from the sidebands around his main tone as I show in my measurements:

index.php


I routinely see power supply issues in DACs I measure and not showing the spectrum down to 20 Hz is a definite mistake.

While there is not much of interest in higher frequencies here, nevertheless the graph needs to show that so that we can tell. Many DACs have garbage at higher frequencies induced by front panel displays, other periodic events running inside the DAC, etc.

When told about this issue, he posts more charges addressing something different and finishes with this:

View attachment 13588

Well, the coverage of jitter measurements in AES17 are quite brief. Instead reader is sent to another AES standard:

View attachment 13589

In there, we find this:

View attachment 13590

So clearly they are interested to see jitter contributions from far wider bandwidth than Bob uses.

Yes, JA at stereophile also makes the same mistake.

Summary
Bob's Jitter measurements are incomplete. They show the least interesting range of frequencies which is around our perceptual masking tone. Jitter spectrum should include full audible bandwidth.
Why do you think others leave out these measurements?
 
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Why do you think others leave out these measurements?
I can explain why JA does it. If you go back a few years you will find that the stereophile jitter measurements were performed using hardware and software developed by Paul Miller. Here is an example: https://www.stereophile.com/content...0-portable-cd-player-more-jitter-measurements

340fig10.jpg


Kind of hard to see them in tiny font but the span is +- 3,500 Hz. So if we are measuring 44.1 kHz, the center frequency would be 11.025 kHz and left side would be 11-3.5 = 7.5 kHz and right side would be 11+3.5 = 14.5 kHz which is what we are seeing in graphs I mentioned.

I think for consistency JA/Stereophile has continued to use the same span even though with the Audio Precision, they could very well change this.

I asked JA once why Paul was only showing +- 3.5 kHz and he said he didn't know. Paul's hardware was a one of a kind National Instrument ADC with 16-bit input and likely he wanted to maximize performance by limiting bandwidth.

Bob may be blindly copying what stereophile doing, not realizing that it is cutting off important information which we can readily show with our analyzers in the last 20 years.
 
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amirm

amirm

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I think you made a typo in your annotation. Didn't you mean to write that the lower scale of the jitter plot should start at 20Hz, not 20kHz?
Yes thanks. Corrected. Glad to see people are following such deep technical topics.
 

Blumlein 88

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I can explain why JA does it. If you go back a few years you will find that the stereophile jitter measurements were performed using hardware and software developed by Paul Miller. Here is an example: https://www.stereophile.com/content...0-portable-cd-player-more-jitter-measurements

340fig10.jpg


Kind of hard to see them in tiny font but the span is +- 3,500 Hz. So if we are measuring 44.1 kHz, the center frequency would be 11.025 kHz and left side would be 11-3.5 = 7.5 kHz and right side would be 11+3.5 = 14.5 kHz which is what we are seeing in graphs I mentioned.

I think for consistency JA/Stereophile has continued to use the same span even though with the Audio Precision, they could very well change this.

I asked JA once why Paul was only showing +- 3.5 kHz and he said he didn't know. Paul's hardware was a one of a kind National Instrument ADC with 16-bit input and likely he wanted to maximize performance by limiting bandwidth.

Bob may be blindly copying what stereophile doing, not realizing that it is cutting off important information which we can readily show with our analyzers in the last 20 years.
The other reason is among better devices that central spike is quite narrow at the base, and spreading it out some allows you to see smaller differences in the close in jitter.
 

Ron Texas

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Exposing bad testing methodology is even more interesting than testing with good methodology. I thought the problems were only with the multibit Schiit dac's but the $99 Modi looks pretty bad too.

Please put those ifi idac2 measurements together in one place. However, so far they look good.
 
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This is Day 3 snapshot:

Schiit Yggdrasil DAC Day 3 Dashboard Measurement.png


Those who think warm up makes a difference are the losing end of this battle. :) Nothing has changed. Even the USB clock continues to be fast by 80 parts in million 1.00008 kHz instead of 1.00000 kHz).

Likewise, linearity remains as broken as before (in green for day 3):

Schiit Yggdrasil DAC Day 3 Linearity Measurement.png


As you see, it completely covers the red. There is maybe a tiny bit less negative excursion but that is within the margin of error for this test (I am surprised it is actually this consistent).
 

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SINAD is up 0.05dB! If you leave it on for 300 days you may end up in the ballpark after all.
 

derp1n

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How and where did this multiple day Yggdrasil warm up meme originate? Surely Schiit are not pushing this narrative themselves?
 
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How and where did this multiple day Yggdrasil warm up meme originate? Surely Schiit are not pushing this narrative themselves?
The owner stipulated it as a condition of loan. Since there has been these claims a number of times I accepted to do it. Supposed to go for a week....
 

L0rdGwyn

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How and where did this multiple day Yggdrasil warm up meme originate? Surely Schiit are not pushing this narrative themselves?

Looks like the founder of the Yggdrasil warm-up myth is none other than Marvey of SBAF - how apropos that you should ask ;) he is quoted on Schiit's site here:
http://www.schiit.com/reviews/yggdrasil

He did an extensive subjective DAC ranking write-up on Head-Fi, must have been before SBAF was spawned. Guess what sits at the top of the list?
 

rebbiputzmaker

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Looks like the founder of the Yggdrasil warm-up myth is none other than Marvey of SBAF - how apropos that you should ask ;) he is quoted on Schiit's site here:
http://www.schiit.com/reviews/yggdrasil

He did an extensive subjective DAC ranking write-up on Head-Fi, must have been before SBAF was spawned. Guess what sits at the top of the list?
Not a myth, the sound will change over time after turn on. I have equipment that does the same.
 
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Not a myth, the sound will change over time after turn on. I have equipment that does the same.
You have a brain that thinks that. Whether the equipment does that, is an entirely different matter.
 

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