Reliability and Life Expectancy Lottery of the measured products so far?

[confucius_zero]

I don't know if this has been brought up so far but seeing that:
- Topping DX3Pro encountered "clicking" problems
- Many chinese DACs (SU8, V1) had to be re-measured twice due to faulty boards
- The Sanskrit 10 came with an inadequate power supply
- etc...

I'm curious to know about the depth of the lottery users would be prone to experience with the well measured products so far and their life expectancy on the listening desk of many new users.

 

[JJB70]

A very good question. In some ways we have never had it so good, with superb audio performance being available for peanuts. The down side is that build quality also seems to have dropped and I do question durability of many modern products. I have friends who have been burned by the Chord Mojo and NAD digital amplifiers going tango uniform within a year or two. I look at tear down pic's of a lot of gear here and it isn't particularly impressive in many cases. I have a pair of KEF X300A digital speakers for my home office but I am pretty sure if they go bang they will be fix by replacing and I would not have paid full price. My experience of battery powered devices means I wouldn't pay a lot for a battery powered device unless it had a user replaceable battery.

 

[Stein]

My Topping DX3 Pro died about 3 and a half weeks in. Problems presented themselves early during operation(interrupts and complete stops), but I didn't recognize them as the dac/amp failing. Shipping company might be part to blame as the box it came in was pretty damaged.

 

[restorer-john]

If you want life expectancy, buy vintage or late 1980s TOTL gear.

If you want all the latest features and flavor-of-the-month D/A converter chips, and computer audio, buy new stuff, but do so on the understanding it is poorly made, is likely unrepairable, and it will have a short life.

Practically everything Amir has reviewed is disposable HiFi IMO. PbFree, SMD single board stuff.

 

[March Audio]

Disposable possibly due to difficulty and cost effectiveness of repair, but also IMO generally more reliable. I'm sure there are exceptions.

It's a good point though. Re comments for example on the NC400 psu for example, a reasonable concern as I too have seen issues in equipment with lifed hot capacitors, has anyone seen any info on the net in forums about unreliabity?

 

[Dogen]

If you want life expectancy, buy vintage or late 1980s TOTL gear.

If you want all the latest features and flavor-of-the-month D/A converter chips, and computer audio, buy new stuff, but do so on the understanding it is poorly made, is likely unrepairable, and it will have a short life.

Practically everything Amir has reviewed is disposable HiFi IMO. PbFree, SMD single board stuff.

A lot of vintage gear you mention is truly stunning in its build quality and repairability. The recent trend has been to trade off quality and repairability for cost of ownership (perceived at least), and I think most consumers would make that trade. The part of me that appreciates electronic craftsmanship hates that, but on the other hand, more people than ever can afford the most excellent audio and video quality in history.

Can we have the economy of scale and component integration that drives down development and manufacture costs, but still have durability and repairability? Would prices have to go up? I don’t know the answer to that question.

 

[restorer-john]

as I too have seen issues in equipment with lifed hot capacitors, has anyone seen any info on the net in forums about unreliabity?

The SMPS pictured for the Hypex appears no better or worse than the multitudes of SMPSs I have worked on over the years. Having the flag heatsinks bent over the capacitors is not exactly ideal, but it is done all the time to enable small form factor supplies. All those caps will be low-esr 105 degree high ripple current capacitors.

Personally, I don't think the supplies will be excessively failure prone due to the relatively low continuous currents most domestic amplifiers will be pulling from them. That said, their life will be in single digit years in my opinion. If people get their money's worth in 10 years or so with these designs, but accept that they are disposable at that point, well everyone is happy I guess.

 

[restorer-john]

A lot of vintage gear you mention is truly stunning in its build quality and repairability. The recent trend has been to trade off quality and repairability for cost of ownership (perceived at least), and I think most consumers would make that trade.

I think some people would make the trade, but not enough to change the tide.

The combinations of downward price pressure, lead free components and soldering methods and ROHS requirements, along with a huge proportion of functionality going into bespoke silicon, has spelled the end for through hole component manufacture and with it, the ability to repair at component level for many technicians and repair facilities. Rework stations are no fun, require excellent eyesight, real time digital microscopes, fume extraction and many of us old-skool technicians only do what we have to in that regard.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

A few thoughts:

At the current price of superb performing DACs, repairability is not much of an issue IMO. Reliability remains so. One needs one's gear to perform consistently and consistently well.
The new products are in the field. They have to prove themselves. Anecdotic reports of units failing is no proof or data point. We need more.

It is human reflex to look kindly and nostalgically at the good old days. Older cars are not as reliable as new ones. Any stupid car on the road does its 100,000 miles easily some without any service. ..
I am amazed by the engineering wonder that is a smartphone: so much technology crammed in such a small volume and with a startling reliability. These things are abused , banged, overused, yet they go on ticking, ringing, communicating, entertaining ....

Still we would like to see reports of issues with manufacturers and particulars models ....

 

[Ron Texas]

My D30 is running after 6 months without a hiccup. However, a Fiio e10k died after a few weeks.

 

[pwjazz]

Older cars are not as reliable as new ones.

Great use of a car analogy! Old cars are much more user serviceable because they have to be.

One area where reliability has definitely worsened is home appliances. It used to be pretty standard for a refrigerator to last decades. Now 7 years seems about average. And user serviceable they are not.

And since we're on the subject of disposable goods, I once had an electric lawnmower that stopped working. There are few simpler devices, with only the parts that could need replacement. First I replaced the fuse, no luck. Then the rectifier, still no luck. I did not replace the motor because it was actually cheaper to just buy a new lawnmower than buying the motor by itself, so that's what I did.

 

[JJB70]

A lot of these things follow the classic pick two of three model, i.e., high build quality, good performance, cheap, pick two. In fact I'd question whether good quality is really compatible with low cost as to design and manufacture to genuine high quality standards is always pricier than just going for a "good enough" type approach.

 

[jhaider]

A lot of vintage gear you mention is truly stunning in its build quality and repairability.

With one important caveat: as long as the needed replacement parts are available.

If the component parts are no longer used, and thus no longer made, repair becomes as much a scavenging operation as anything else.

 

[sergeauckland]

With one important caveat: as long as the needed replacement parts are available.

If the component parts are no longer used, and thus no longer made, repair becomes as much a scavenging operation as anything else.

Yes and No. Unless complete originality is a criterion, most amplifiers from the 1960s, 70s and 80s used 'standard' parts which can be sourced from normal suppliers even today. Capacitors, resistors and even most SS devices aren't that difficult to substitute. I accept that things like mains or output transformers are less likely to be available from Mouser or Farnell and the like, but the existing faulty transformer can be rewound, or a modern equivalent sourced from people like Sowter transformers in the UK. The most difficult are mechanical items, especially switches, which were often custom made in ganged banks or wafers, and those I accept may be difficult to source.

One of the satisfactions I find in repairing old kit is actually in the sourcing of alternatives to 50 year old capacitors or whatever, and clearly, in most cases the repair of this old equipment isn't commercially viable if one costs one's time even at minimum wage, but as a retirement hobby, time isn't important. I've been working on a Ferrograph 631 tape recorder from 1965 on and off for a couple of years, when I have nothing better to do, and except for the heads themselves, which I fear may be too badly worn even for relapping, there's nothing I can't replace.

S.

 

[cjfrbw]

I opened up my 40 year old Yamaha B2 recently to replace meter lights with orange diodes I had never seen the insides before, it has been in service for me for over 5 years and is all original as far as I know (cleaned and re-biased by seller when I bought it for $485 delivered). It looks amazingly clean for such an old amplifier, and the sound quality is dazzling, hypnotic still. I may bypass the controls at some point to make it a pure power amp, but even with the control goo in place, it sounds beyond what I hear from most SS amps at any cost or vintage.

 

[miero]

...
It's a good point though. Re comments for example on the NC400 psu for example, a reasonable concern as I too have seen issues in equipment with lifed hot capacitors, has anyone seen any info on the net in forums about unreliabity?

I guess this is solved through RMA channel if that happens. For example I have two SMPS600 more than 5 years old and I was communicating with Hypex RMA department and they said they have no repair history for my batch number.

 

[bigx5murf]

Hi

A few thoughts:

At the current price of superb performing DACs, repairability is not much of an issue IMO. Reliability remains so. One needs one's gear to perform consistently and consistently well.
The new products are in the field. They have to prove themselves. Anecdotic reports of units failing is no proof or data point. We need more.

It is human reflex to look kindly and nostalgically at the good old days. Older cars are not as reliable as new ones. Any stupid car on the road does its 100,000 miles easily some without any service. ..
I am amazed by the engineering wonder that is a smartphone: so much technology crammed in such a small volume and with a startling reliability. These things are abused , banged, overused, yet they go on ticking, ringing, communicating, entertaining ....

Still we would like to see reports of issues with manufacturers and particulars models ....

This, so this. I like to repair and restore vintage electronics for fun. I tell everyone if they want reliability, buy new. I explain to them most electronics from every era are built like crap, not just modern. But with vintage stuff, the stuff that isn't cheap is significantly more likely to survive. Giving people this twisted idea of high quality vintage.

 

[Sin Hizer]

Seems like everyday I read about one of the mentioned brands having a reliability issue. Mostly Topping. Has anyone had a good experience with their return/repair department? I don’t mean via Amazon or other 3rd party, I mean it going to China and back.

 

[bravomail]

FX-Audio X6 died on me after about a year. I use Yamaha AV receiver 683 to headphone out to Magni 2 to replace it for now. Not ideal. DX3 is triple the price. SMSL M3 maybe - but massdrop reports of horrible quality. So, not sure.

 

[confucius_zero]

FX-Audio X6 died on me after about a year. I use Yamaha AV receiver 683 to headphone out to Magni 2 to replace it for now. Not ideal. DX3 is triple the price. SMSL M3 maybe - but massdrop reports of horrible quality. So, not sure.

I'm using REGA DAC to jds atom to Yamaha rs202

What about topping d10 to magni?