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Reducing Noise in Ethernet Cable

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#1
If I am streaming music from my server over an Ethernet cable to my SoTM SMS Ultra do I have to worry about noise? If so, how do I reduce it?
 

DonH56

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#2
No.
 

amirm

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#3
No, no. :)

The only thing I have seen is that if they using a switching wal-wart, replacing that with a linear supply reduces mains noise. But that noise is not audible.
 

stunta

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#4
I just looked up this SoTM SMS Ultra device. Is the base price really $1200? Isn't it just a Linux box you need to hook up to a DAC? Any competent DAC will use asynch USB, so what is it exactly this thing is doing that a small cheaper fanless PC can't do?
 
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#6
I just looked up this SoTM SMS Ultra device. Is the base price really $1200? Isn't it just a Linux box you need to hook up to a DAC? Any competent DAC will use asynch USB, so what is it exactly this thing is doing that a small cheaper fanless PC can't do?
The Ultra has a clock in it.

My issue is I have a very expensive network player- Ayon S-5 and they recommend connecting by RJ45. It does not have a USB input. I have had it for 3 years and got tired of it. So I bought the Schitt and in a side by side comparison the Ayon is light years ahead in sound.

Anyway, the Ayon music playing sucks in a gigantic way. I love Roon and I needed a go between. I was using this cheap Sonore plastic cube for the past year and wanted to upgrade.
I think one reason I got the Schitt was it has a USB input.
Now I'm confused on getting myself to a good place and getting rid of the Schitt in my system.
 
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#7
No, no. :)

The only thing I have seen is that if they using a switching wal-wart, replacing that with a linear supply reduces mains noise. But that noise is not audible.
So the noise on the Ethernet line is not audible? No jitter?
 

amirm

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#8

stunta

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#9
I am a bit unclear on your target usage scenario. I quickly looked up your network player and it uses UPnP so its likely its over TCP/IP and reclocks from the buffer, so whatever this SoTM does is largely irrelevant as long as you can stream to the network player. You can use a wireless dongle to talk to a server in another room.

I used to own a streamer (a Linn DS which I used for a few months and sold for a nice profit. weird but true) and it made sense to not have an intermediate PC plugged in, but then it stopped making sense once I realized UPnP is not a secure protocol and that most servers have limited functionality. A fanless PC + USB DAC made more sense in the end, especially because this was also cheaper overall. I have shared network drives mapped on the fanless PC and the music is stored on an external HDD attached to my main PC upstairs. Works well, except that Windows does not automatically reconnect the mapped drives. I've too lazy to write a startup script that will connect them automatically.
 
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#10
Great post! So much BS in the audio world it is incredible. In order not to fall prey to these con men I would have to have an electrical engineering degree or be a member of Audio Science!

I am in the medical field and I do have something very similar to what you show in your post. I do not have 12 inches between my ethernet cables and my AC mains. It is looks like a pasta salad behind my racks and TV stand.
 
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#11
I am a bit unclear on your target usage scenario. I quickly looked up your network player and it uses UPnP so its likely its over TCP/IP and reclocks from the buffer, so whatever this SoTM does is largely irrelevant as long as you can stream to the network player. You can use a wireless dongle to talk to a server in another room.

I used to own a streamer (a Linn DS which I used for a few months and sold for a nice profit. weird but true) and it made sense to not have an intermediate PC plugged in, but then it stopped making sense once I realized UPnP is not a secure protocol and that most servers have limited functionality. A fanless PC + USB DAC made more sense in the end, especially because this was also cheaper overall. I have shared network drives mapped on the fanless PC and the music is stored on an external HDD attached to my main PC upstairs. Works well, except that Windows does not automatically reconnect the mapped drives. I've too lazy to write a startup script that will connect them automatically.
The SoTM is not hooked up to the Ayon S-5. I was using the Sonore to run an optical link. I got the SoTM when I purchased the Schiit Yggdrasil because my music server was not compatible with it as it runs Windows Server. Yes, I went deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. I am trying to claw my way back up.

I do own a Mac Mini with an external power supply but I hated using it because the link software sucked eggs. But that was a few years ago. Maybe I should revisit it. I tried to sell the Ayon S-5 but I had no takers and I was offering it at a very good price. Like you I want simple connections.
Yes, I am a doofus.
 

RayDunzl

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#12
It is looks like a pasta salad behind my racks and TV stand.
Yours looks edible?

This was July 2016, nothing much has changed. More stuff added. At least there's room to get back there.

upload_2018-2-18_23-3-52.png
 

Wombat

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#14
Knock, knock.

images.jpg
 

stunta

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#15
The SoTM is not hooked up to the Ayon S-5. I was using the Sonore to run an optical link. I got the SoTM when I purchased the Schiit Yggdrasil because my music server was not compatible with it as it runs Windows Server. Yes, I went deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. I am trying to claw my way back up.

I do own a Mac Mini with an external power supply but I hated using it because the link software sucked eggs. But that was a few years ago. Maybe I should revisit it. I tried to sell the Ayon S-5 but I had no takers and I was offering it at a very good price. Like you I want simple connections.
Yes, I am a doofus.
I've been there, done that. Unfortunately. I had to wipe the slate clean and start over, kinda like rehab I guess.

The best thing I learnt was that if a component is designed correctly, the cables, if made to spec, do not matter. It seems obvious now, but somehow back then I'd just gone in blindly because other people seemed smarter and more experienced with hifi. For someone not educated in electronics like me, it is difficult to assess which components were designed correctly. This is why I like ASR. One can ask questions like in your OP and get blunt answers (@DonH56) and then explanations too (@amirm).
 

Wombat

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#16
I've been there, done that. Unfortunately. I had to wipe the slate clean and start over, kinda like rehab I guess.

The best thing I learnt was that if a component is designed correctly, the cables, if made to spec, do not matter. It seems obvious now, but somehow back then I'd just gone in blindly because other people seemed smarter and more experienced with hifi. For someone not educated in electronics like me, it is difficult to assess which components were designed correctly. This is why I like ASR. One can ask questions like in your OP and get blunt answers (@DonH56) and then explanations too (@amirm).

I wouldn't say Don was blunt. At times concise and direct, like me. IMHO, YMMV, etc.o_O :eek::rolleyes:

General comment not directed at the poster:

One can learn here, from a bunch of individuals with various knowledge and experience. That is an important function of ASR. If one is seen to be genuinely interested then members will give you their time. If you need an explanation re a post content, please ask. We all had to start at the beginning. ;)
 
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rebbiputzmaker

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#17
The Ultra has a clock in it.

My issue is I have a very expensive network player- Ayon S-5 and they recommend connecting by RJ45. It does not have a USB input. I have had it for 3 years and got tired of it. So I bought the Schitt and in a side by side comparison the Ayon is light years ahead in sound.

Anyway, the Ayon music playing sucks in a gigantic way. I love Roon and I needed a go between. I was using this cheap Sonore plastic cube for the past year and wanted to upgrade.
I think one reason I got the Schitt was it has a USB input.
Now I'm confused on getting myself to a good place and getting rid of the Schitt in my system.
Please do not take this the wrong way but the main problem you are having is you do not really know what you are doing. You purchased a $17000.00 network player. If you wanted to still use it with the Schiit DAC you can, as it has a RCA SPDIF digital output, which would bypass the S5 dac section. You did not have to purchase another player. You say you cannot use a player because it uses Windows, why? You say the Mac software sucks, what software? There are many different music players available for use on your Mac. And the same holds true for windows. Network cables are sensitive to interference. A common example is running Ethernet cables over florescent fixtures in a drop ceiling. Before you blame any of your equipment it would behoove you to set the stuff up properly. If this is really beyond you, find someone in area that can set your stuff up properly and don't waste any more money or trash anymore manufactures. If you would like, outline your system here and maybe someone will help you.

regards
 
Last edited:

svart-hvitt

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#18
ETHERNET AND MEASUREMENTS

To inspire audiophilia nervosa I thought I’d just post a handful of links:

BLUE JEANS: https://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/is-your-cat6-a-dog.htm

NEUTRIK: http://www.neutrik.com/zoolu-website/media/download/15427/Test+Report+-+etherCON+NE8MX6

GORE: https://www.gore.com/sites/g/files/...mission - White Paper - Military - 111816.pdf

I like Gore’s concluding remarks:

«Gore’s testing demonstrates the importance of designing the right Ethernet Interconnect that delivers excellent mechanical and electrical performance for high-speed data transmission in challenging aerospace conditions to ensure mission-critical success».

Aerospace conditions...

Mission-critical...

We all want that for our audio gear, right? ;)

Well, what we see is that Ethernet technology (naturally) is specs driven and engineers go to great lengths to ensure that the technology delivers within specs.

I think my points are these:

(1) Which Ethernet related measurements are relevant for audio?

(2) How «harsh» is an audio environment.

(3) Cost of implementation (the Amphenol Oval Connector System costs about 1000 dollars per connector).

And on a more general note: These questions may seem a bit «off», but because this is an audio science research site it would be of great interest if we could agree on what are «good specifications» and what are «relevant specifications» when testing gear.
 
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#20
Please do not take this the wrong way but the main problem you are having is you do not really know what you are doing. You purchased a $17000.00 network player. If you wanted to still use it with the Schiit DAC you can, as it has a RCA SPDIF digital output, which would bypass the S5 dac section. You did not have to purchase another player. You say you cannot use a player because it uses Windows, why? You say the Mac software sucks, what software? There are many different music players available for use on your Mac. And the same holds true for windows. Network cables are sensitive to interference. A common example is running Ethernet cables over florescent fixtures in a drop ceiling. Before you blame any of your equipment it would behoove you to set the stuff up properly. If this is really beyond you, find someone in area that can set your stuff up properly and don't waste any more money or trash anymore manufactures. If you would like, outline your system here and maybe someone will help you.

regards
Wow for one how difficult is it to be nice to a new member who is opening up about some poor purchases and is trying to get some help with it. Secondly, either I did not explain it well or you did not process my information correctly about my set up and the changes that I made. Why would I attach one DAC to another DAC? Come on dude.... oh and thanks for commenting on the MSRP of the unit I own. BTW, I paid considerably less than that.
You can write all you want on my posts but I will not respond beyond these comments.
 

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