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Reducing Noise in Ethernet Cable

Blumlein 88

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#45
Generally something is poorly performing because it's poorly performing. I've never seen a ruler shorten a trip.
As long as u don't use a ruler it's not a problem. Apparently a guiding philosophy with some brands.
 

rebbiputzmaker

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#46
Generally something is poorly performing because it's poorly performing. I've never seen a ruler shorten a trip.
Things of course can preform poorly, but I think it is a stretch to think that is a manufactures intention. Some seem to think it is OK to accuse wrong doing. I think to to fair that needs bit more thought. IMO people who are quick to accuse one of wrong doing, need to examine their character. Would they intentional wrong someone? If not then they should try to think the same of others!
 

stunta

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#48
They look like interesting products. I would want to look at some measurements before purchasing. I don't want anymore "Schiit"
You may also want to consider a Raspberry Pi. I think there is this thing called "Roon Bridge" which can run on a Pi. It may then be a matter of figuring out how to get the stream out from there into your Ayon. If the Ayon has PSDIF, something like this can be slapped on top of the Pi. This should be a low cost setup that I think could work quite well.
 
OP
Jerry Sobel
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Thread Starter #49
You may also want to consider a Raspberry Pi. I think there is this thing called "Roon Bridge" which can run on a Pi. It may then be a matter of figuring out how to get the stream out from there into your Ayon. If the Ayon has PSDIF, something like this can be slapped on top of the Pi. This should be a low cost setup that I think could work quite well.
I would think that the Pi has a lot of noise because of the power supply
 

stunta

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#51
I would think that the Pi has a lot of noise because of the power supply
That link I added to the DigiOne might be worth reading. Here is what they say "The Digione has a galvanic isolator for both power and signals". They also have measurements posted but I haven't looked at them and probably wont understand them. Someone on here can probably validate it.
 
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Soniclife

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#52
Amir was/is going to measure a allo product. If you are comfortable with the setup side this would be what I would use.
 

Wombat

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#53
Read other post, if I would have suggested a subjective site your torch bearers would start an attack!

Maybe it is anti-semantics! Language is a tool! Think a bit!!!
I don't have to do any thinking to see through your unsavoury pun. :eek:
 
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#54
I would generally prefer an interface that allows the DAC to be master of its own sample clock. Which would be an 'asynchronous' USB interface, or a DLNA/UPnP interface. SPDIF is a source-clocked interface, which means the DAC must use a recovered clock, locked to the source. This isn't a trivial task, and can result in the dreaded 'jitter', if not done well.

As for you not liking your player, there are loads of DLNA/UPnP players for Android and windows. Bit thin on the ground for Apple, due to it competing with their own Airplay. I use BubbleUPnP on Android, and MediaMonkey and MusicBee on Windows. All will play to a DLNA streaming receiver. As it happens, all three apps will also provide a DLNA server, and will act as a DLNA renderer (I.e. you can stream to them).
 
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Jerry Sobel
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Thread Starter #55
I would generally prefer an interface that allows the DAC to be master of its own sample clock. Which would be an 'asynchronous' USB interface, or a DLNA/UPnP interface. SPDIF is a source-clocked interface, which means the DAC must use a recovered clock, locked to the source. This isn't a trivial task, and can result in the dreaded 'jitter', if not done well.

As for you not liking your player, there are loads of DLNA/UPnP players for Android and windows. Bit thin on the ground for Apple, due to it competing with their own Airplay. I use BubbleUPnP on Android, and MediaMonkey and MusicBee on Windows. All will play to a DLNA streaming receiver. As it happens, all three apps will also provide a DLNA server, and will act as a DLNA renderer (I.e. you can stream to them).
Thank you for your help. I love Roon with Tidal and that's what I am trying to set up for. I used JRiver for a long time but when I started to use Roon it was game over.
 

March Audio

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#56
I would think that the Pi has a lot of noise because of the power supply
Rpi works fine. I dont use a spdif output but i have one running Roon endpoint driving my Chord Mojo via usb. There is no difference between it and pc connection, measured or audible. Its also been entirely stable and reliable for over year
 
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#57
but when I started to use Roon it was game over.
Except for the DLNA issue.

I'm not familiar with Roon, but I've just read a few threads on their forum. It's clear that Roon are utterly set on never supporting DLNA, as they are pushing their own RAAT protocol, hoping to make it a standard (I think that's optimistic). Proposing workarounds that involve SPDIF is a retrograde step, IMHO.
 

March Audio

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#58
Thank you for your help. I love Roon with Tidal and that's what I am trying to set up for. I used JRiver for a long time but when I started to use Roon it was game over.
I agree that SPDIF is not optimal, but that does depend on how good the clock extraction is in the player. I dont think this is the issue it once was, but cant comment on how effective your player is.

This RPI package is so cheap that if you dont like it you wont lose sleep over what you spent :) Dont be put off by the cheap price, it really does work :)
isolated SPDIF out, will run roon endpoint with a Roon certified image, ethernet or wifi. simple to get going and we can help :) .

http://iqaudio.co.uk/home/52-pi-dac-bundle.html

http://www.iqaudio.com/downloads/IQaudIO.pdf

I built this wiFi speaker out of their DigiAmp HAT. Been bullet proof with Roon again for over a year.

IMG_20180221_181034.jpg


Capture.PNG




A more sophisticated card is that made by Allo, although I have not personally set this up with Roon.

https://www.allo.com/sparky/digione.html

https://www.allo.com/sparky/digione-player.html

We started designing a digital (S/PDIF) transport for RPI with one goal in mind: Absolut best S/PDIF output.

Now let me explain… behind the grandiose wording there is an exact science. Since this is a digital stream the most important aspect for "absolut best" is jitter. Jitter in digital domain directly translates into analog errors. Second, is noise. Lowering the noise that’s injected in your DAC will produce some (small-to-none) improvements.

Then we went to work.

10 LDOs, 12 LPF, DC/DC convertors, galvanic isolator, WM8805, flip flops, buffers, NDK oscillators.

Optical had to go… by definition it has a jitter of 4ns. That’s 4000ps. We simply removed it. However, optical has galvanic isolation so we took the decision to use a digital isolator instead that separates the outputs from both RPI and WM8805.

DigiOne has 2 outputs: BNC and plain RCA (coaxial). On both, we have achieved jitter of 0.6ps (1 picosecond – time taken by light in a vacuum to travel approximately 0.30 mm).

Noise. 50uV (batteries have about 12uV of noise).

What we achieved, in our opinion and based on public measurements, is the best transport at any price point (yes, even when compared with 5k USD/EUR transports).

Enjoy.


Apparantly works with Roon

https://roonlabs.com/partners/allo.html

edit: found the instructions:

https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/s...?_encoding=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0&mgh=1

Sounds like a great solution.

Edit Edit:

Sounds like Roon is already installed on the supplied image :)

http://dietpi.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2317#p8868
 
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Jerry Sobel
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Thread Starter #59
Are these set ups DIY? My massive two piece streamer has RJ45 input or BNC or optical. I guess I would go for the USB to S/PDIF one. Currently I have a SoTM as my Roon endpoint but just sold my Yggdrasil so need that go between piece. The Pi seems like a great cheap solution. I must read more about these. Thank you for help.
 
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#60
I'm not sure exactly what it is you are trying to achieve, so I'll try to deconstruct one of your posts to see if we can clear that up...

> My issue is I have a very expensive network player- Ayon S-5 and they recommend connecting by RJ45. It does not have a USB input. I have had it for 3 years and got tired of it.

What aspect did you get tired of?

> So I bought the Schitt and in a side by side comparison the Ayon is light years ahead in sound.

This suggests you still like the sound of the Ayon, yes?

> Anyway, the Ayon music playing sucks in a gigantic way
> I love Roon

Was it the Ayon user interface that you think sucks, and got tired of?
Did you got Roon as a replacement UI for the Ayon?
But, since Roon does not, and will not support DLNA, you can't use it to drive your Ayon via the network?

I am going to assume you are happy with the sound of the Ayon (unless you tell us otherwise), but want to replace means by which you interact with it.

You have a choice, then:

i) continue to use Roon, but look for an alternative means to deliver a stream to the Ayon
ii) continue to use Roon, but replace the Ayon with a device that supports Roon's RAAT protocol
iii) continue to use the Ayon, driven via network port, using an alternative UI.

Looking at the Roon website, I see that it does look very pretty, and the 'flow of consciousness' demo does look beguiling. But I cannot see much in the features that cannot be provided by other music player apps. Roon are obviously being a bit bold with their statement that 'Roon plays with your gear'. I guess they didn't include the magic word 'all' in that...

They provide somewhat unfair comparisons of the 'Roon turns this...into this'; I have never used a media player that simply has a bald track listing. All the media players I have (except tiny little portable MP3 players) have album art views, and some offer lyrics, band profiles, their other albums, similar artists, shopping links, etc. Some of these players also look very pretty. And the players I use are free, or cost a few pounds to buy, not $120pa.

For me, music is an audio experience; I set my player running, and listen to music. I don't really look at the pretty pictures, or read the lyrics, etc, unless something specific crops up that I want to have a look at.

If you want to continue to use your Ayon, and you want to continue streaming to it via the network port (using DLNA), then I'd suggest you look at other media players. Here are some I'd suggest:

MediaMonkey https://www.mediamonkey.com/download/ free, with minor limitations on function, Windows
MusicBee https://getmusicbee.com/ free, closed source, single man developer, Windows
Kodi https://kodi.tv/ free, fully open source, with very active development team, multi-platform, Tidal add-on available
Plex https://www.plex.tv/ free, multi-platform

I've listed them in increasing order of 'prettiness'... They will pretty much all do the same thing. MM, MB and Kodi will all access an SMB file server, as well as a DLNA media server. This can give a better user experience (e.g. the ability to run an auto-DJ function, which is tricky with DLNA). I can't speak for Plex, as I've not used it. The look-and-feel of MB & Kodi can be set up, using configuration of the various panels, and by the use of skins. Kodi has a huge user base, and has many skins available, and accesses rich metadata databases for artist information, cover art, fan art, etc.

Of course, I may have misunderstood what you are trying to achieve...
 

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