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PS Audio PowerPlant P12 Amplifier Tests (Video)

egellings

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Belief is merely a shiny object that you arbitrarily select without evidence and can look at; Knowledge is testable and refutable or verifiable. Once verified, a piece of knowledge can be used to help get other knowledge. A belief is largely a useless ornament.
 

CinDyment

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@amirm - Did you ever measure the efficiency of the unit? Perhaps even with just a cheap KiloWatt meter, one on the input, one on the output?
 

solderdude

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You can ask @pinpoint_oxford.

He can stick his 'power meter' in front of the P12 when doing a test with 'the new FW' if that really exists and he wants to know himself (which I reckon he does)
 

Holmz

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Belief is merely a shiny object that you arbitrarily select without evidence and can look at; Knowledge is testable and refutable or verifiable. Once verified, a piece of knowledge can be used to help get other knowledge. A belief is largely a useless ornament.

Understood, but my point was that some people believe so deeply, that to them it seems like knowledge.
Evidence, verifiably, and proof are not needed by them.

In the case of this power conditioner, it is not 100% clear that many BELIEVE that the thing works, and no knowledge or proof will result in a change, or questioning of their belief.

It would have likely helped if the test also included a measurement of DC blocking. That could possibly be one area where the unit may appear to help some of the proponents of it.
 

DonR

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Understood, but my point was that some people believe so deeply, that to them it seems like knowledge.
Evidence, verifiably, and proof are not needed by them.

In the case of this power conditioner, it is not 100% clear that many BELIEVE that the thing works, and no knowledge or proof will result in a change, or questioning of their belief.

It would have likely helped if the test also included a measurement of DC blocking. That could possibly be one area where the unit may appear to help some of the proponents of it.
In a world where "religious scholar" is a thing, that is not surprising.
 

egellings

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Belief enables all sorts of quackery & charlatanism. Magic power cords and homeopathy have a lot in common. Money getting drives it.
 

pinpoint_oxford

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Belief enables all sorts of quackery & charlatanism. Magic power cords and homeopathy have a lot in common. Money getting drives it.
Except that magic power cords tend to be bigger than they need to be and homeopathy is all about diluting the main component and making it smaller. :)
 

egellings

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True, but nonetheless, whichever way the arrow points, it's all BS.
 

srkbear

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A certain breed of people seem to think that taking Ivermeticin is a good idea against COVID. They may as well resort to drinking disinfectants.
As an infectious diseases doctor, thank you for saying this—and although I’d deny it if anyone asked, I’m in a fetal position weeping with joy that no one attempted to argue with you on this. Wish it were that way for this expensive box of screws.
 

MattHooper

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The Audiophile Junky agrees with Amir and adds his 2 cents worth. Starts at 8:34 ;)



I notice most people mentioning Amirm seem to drop the "m" at the end (even in writing).

Amirm: is the last "m" in your name pronounced, or silent? (I've presumed the former).
 

Doodski

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I notice most people mentioning Amirm seem to drop the "m" at the end (even in writing).

Amirm: is the last "m" in your name pronounced, or silent? (I've presumed the former).
The full name with surname is Amir Majidimehr. :D
 

MattHooper

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The full name with surname is Amir Majidimehr. :D

Ha! Thanks! I've been so used to seeing his signature "Amirm" I presumed that was his first name! (And I kept saying "Amir" in my brain, but would correct myself to "Amirm.")

I'm a slow study. Thanks again.
 

srkbear

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I notice most people mentioning Amirm seem to drop the "m" at the end (even in writing).

Amirm: is the last "m" in your name pronounced, or silent? (I've presumed the former).
The “M” is the first initial of his last name.
 

srkbear

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Ha! Thanks! I've been so used to seeing his signature "Amirm" I presumed that was his first name! (And I kept saying "Amir" in my brain, but would correct myself to "Amirm.")

I'm a slow study. Thanks again.
And I’m a slow responder. Kindly ignore my redundant post.
 

captainbeefheart

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It would have likely helped if the test also included a measurement of DC blocking. That could possibly be one area where the unit may appear to help some of the proponents of it.

Possibly but PSAudio does not mention anything about DC on your mains in their sales jargon. What they actually claim it does do is shown to be false, which us engineers already knew because we know how these things work. Their big claim is "filtering noise" to improve the performance of your audio gear yet there is zero evidence to back this claim up, nothing plugged into the P12 shows a lower noise floor at output vs not plugged into it. Of course we knew this before testing because nothing can do this between the wall and your amp. The vast majority of noise and distortion is actually created by the amplifier/device well beyond the mains cable, it's called the rectifier. You could have a perfect transmission of power, just a pure 60Hz sine wave with distortion and noise -180db. The claim is this improves your amplifier yet the instant it hits the rectifier under load you end up with a ton of noise, RF bursts, and distortion, this is where we put the most amount of care into filtering and regulation because doing it before would be pointless. FCC actually requires filters on the mains side of the rectifiers so that the nonlinear load of rectification doesn't pollute the grid. So long as the DC is clean and constant that feeds the active circuitry is all that is required for good performance and this is directly observed by looking at the output of the device.

There are two main takeaways that the subjective arguing people need to educate themselves on. One is the fact that engineers know intimately how amplifiers function because that's what we do, we engineer equipment for you to enjoy. So when we say there is absolutely no possible way a power cable or "conditioner" can do what they claim they do you should listen. If we say subjective anything should be dismissed you should trust us. Secondly, all of you subjective arguers are in denial how perception works. Humans do not passively process data from the physical world around them, we actually construct our own reality from a very small percentage of actual real data from the physical world. Have none of you seen optical or auditory illusions? Once you accept the second part as fact then the first part becomes easier to accept. Your subjective "experience" is an internal one, a construct of your own perception and nothing that is actually occurring in the physical world.

The largest disconnect is the fact people believe they are precision measurement devices that accurately and passively process 100% of the data, and can recall it perfectly at will.
 

Holmz

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Possibly but PSAudio does not mention anything about DC on your mains in their sales jargon. …
...

They have so much that is either missing, or in error, with their propaganda, that it would not be surprising to me that somehow in the process they accidentally helped some aspect... maybe inadvertently.
 

captainbeefheart

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They have so much that is either missing, or in error, with their propaganda, that it would not be surprising to me that somehow in the process they accidentally helped some aspect... maybe inadvertently.

And the aspect it inadvertently may have helped should have been fixed by proper troubleshooting and typically something simple like plug all devices into the same power distribution branch circuit in your house or a DI box etc... $6,000 to solve an "off label" problem is just ridiculous. I say "off label" because we all know they advertise it's major function as "cleaning" your power. People picture in their minds it's a filter that takes something polluted and filters the pollutant out and you're left with something clean that can be consumed. In this case it "cleans" the electricity so the music is "purer". I can completely understand how this sounds legit from a layman's pov, but from someone that understands how electronics function the notion is obviously ridiculous. Now add in golden ear consumers that can "critically listen" that say they can hear a difference for the better and that "confirms" the propaganda in the advertising and the result is us arguing over it on the internet. :facepalm:

The problem with critically listening is you're imagination runs unchecked. You may hear something you literally just didn't notice before because you were focusing in on say the drums the last time you heard that same moment in the recording but now you're listening to and focusing in on the piano. Something........actually literally anything can pop into your perception at any given time but doesn't mean it wasn't there before or it also doesn't even mean it's there at all. High quality calibrated test equipment is the only way to accurately and repeatably collect data to analyze and make a discovery.
 
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