PurePower 3000 AC Regenerator Review

[amirm]

I have 3 Cyberpower UPSs. I bought them because they were the only 1RU fanless sinewave units I could find. Every 2 years or so, batteries die. After getting tired of paying high prices for the batteries, I figured out how to buy the individual batteries for cheap and replace them for half the price. Alas, two of the units have failed in the 5 to 7 years.

I have an APC with Lithium battery that was discontinued. It was expensive but it is going on 5 or so years with no problems.

 

[Gibsonian]

What problem is this device designed to solve?

Excess funds in the checking account

 

[elberoth]

I have 3 Cyberpower UPSs. I bought them because they were the only 1RU fanless sinewave units I could find. Every 2 years or so, batteries die. After getting tired of paying high prices for the batteries, I figured out how to buy the individual batteries for cheap and replace them for half the price. Alas, two of the units have failed in the 5 to 7 years.

I have an APC with Lithium battery that was discontinued. It was expensive but it is going on 5 or so years with no problems.

I have same routine on my CyberPower UPSs. Every 2/3 years I open them, order a new battery from Amazon (which is like $20) and they work for another 2/3 years. I use them to power my computer, NAS, router etc.

 

[lc6]

150 amp pulses??? A linear supply would need a 160lb transformer, and your max level out of he amp only goes down .2db. And I dont think that power conditioner puts out anywhere near 150 amps.

So, first @Speedskater uses the argument of 10x the 15 A branch circuit current to counteract my post, then @Cbdb2 ridicules said 150 A current, then @Cbdb2 likes the @Speedskater post. Get your act together.

 

[wwenze]

Basically you're requesting for a transient response test. Which is a valid test in power supply reviews and also a datasheet requirement.
Voltage regulation checks for (apparent) DC / low frequency output impedance. Transient response checks for high frequency impedance. We check for Zout in amplifiers too, no reason not to for power supplies. We don't know what standardized test to use tho, could you provide a suggestion?

And unfortunately for this particular review, we didn't even get to the static load stage (i.e. voltage regulation) due to poor noise performance, so needless to say you won't get the transient load part.

I do notice the voltage changed a bit between the second and third measurement.

 

[Beershaun]

These devices have no use for our hobby in our homes. This product is an embarrassment for $5000. A surge suppressor is all that we need to protect our equipment. For me, I don't see the need for a UPS for my stereo. If the power goes out I'm not listening to music anyway.

 

[lc6]

Basically you're requesting for a transient response test. Which is a valid test in power supply reviews and also a datasheet requirement.
Voltage regulation checks for (apparent) DC / low frequency output impedance. Transient response checks for high frequency impedance. We check for Zout in amplifiers too, no reason not to for power supplies. We don't know what standardized test to use tho, could you provide a suggestion?

And unfortunately for this particular review, we didn't even get to the static load stage (i.e. voltage regulation) due to poor noise performance, so needless to say you won't get the transient load part.

I do notice the voltage changed a bit between the second and third measurement.

The only thing that comes to mind is a rig with inductive impedance loads (simulating typical power amp loads) that could draw kilowatts without getting burned and could get connected electronically to the PS with relatively high frequency, i.e. not via mechanical relays (maybe via a triac or a similar device?). Then establish a protocol of dynamically connecting these loads to simulate transients, while simultaneously recording voltage drops to calculate the apparent output impedance of the PS. Then compare the same to a setup where the loads are connected directly to a wall receptacle.

For the record, I also think such devices are unnecessary in typical home systems, especially if they do not even filter mains noise properly. But I recall an argument made in a video by Paul of PS Audio that ASR did not measure their power conditioner correctly, focusing only on the filtering aspect and not on the claimed lower output impedance compared to plain mains. That is why I think such a load test would be useful, although it could require building a custom rig.

 

[respice finem]

These devices have no use for our hobby in our homes. This product is an embarrassment for $5000. A surge suppressor is all that we need to protect our equipment. For me, I don't see the need for a UPS for my stereo. If the power goes out I'm not listening to music anyway.

Maybe with one exception: firmware updates.
But for this, temporarily plugging in a cheap, standard UPS will suffice.

 

[Cbdb2]

So, first @Speedskater uses the argument of 10x the 15 A branch circuit current to counteract my post, then @Cbdb2 ridicules said 150 A current, then @Cbdb2 likes the @Speedskater post. Get your act together.

Two sides of the same coin.

 

[Cbdb2]

But I recall an argument made in a video by Paul of PS Audio that ASR did not measure their power conditioner correctly, focusing only on the filtering aspect and not on the claimed lower output impedance compared to plain mains.

Even if thats true which needs proof. Ill say it again. " Which does what for your audio? Nothing except increase your amplifier peak output before clipping by .2db. If thats an advantage for you, you have bigger problems."

Paul is a moron.

 

[Devnull]

Even if thats true which needs proof. Ill say it again. " Which does what for your audio? Nothing except increase your amplifier peak output before clipping by .2db. If thats an advantage for you, you have bigger problems."

Paul is a moron.

Exactly! If you're running so close to the ragged edge then you'd be better off spending 5 grand anywhere else.

 

[wwenze]

Even if thats true which needs proof. Ill say it again. " Which does what for your audio? Nothing except increase your amplifier peak output before clipping by .2db. If thats an advantage for you, you have bigger problems."

Paul is a moron.

Why let Paul off easy with his claims? While it is true that regulation + feedback reduces output impedance and so does local capacitors, the fact that it is switching at 20kHz means the output impedance near that frequency and beyond is going to be ____ed and will have to rely on only output filter capacitors. Also who knows what the frequency of the switching noise filter is.

This website is debunking the weirdest claims. Power cables have been tested, it don't even affect amplifier peak output.

 

[anphex]

What a waste of time, parts, money and creative energy.

 

[DualTriode]

Not really true sine but chopped up re constituted dc.
Like Spam is to ham

 

[ElJaimito]

Not really true sine but chopped up re constituted dc.
Like Spam is to ham

Ahem. All *repetitive* waveforms -- like mains supply -- are true sinewaves, plus harmonics as the shape changes. Ask Mr. Fourier. Spam is made of ham plus pollutants...

 

[ElJaimito]

...on the claimed lower output impedance compared to plain mains. That is why I think such a load test would be useful, although it could require building a custom rig.

I find it hard to believe that any small (<20kVA) UPS could provide a lower output impedance than a country/state wide public electricity supply. Even local transformers and house wiring impedance should be well below 0.1 ohms. Even my supply -- 30km from the substation in rural Spain on a local village transformer a km away and with 1980's power circuits and all of 25A/5.75 kW supply -- the impedance/resistance summed is below 0.11 ohms at 25 A draw - at 50 Hz of course, and I know that this is caused by the thin feeds from the meter to my distribution panel, the feeds into the meter are 100A rated. This result is by calculation and measurement (I'm planning on upping the power for an EV). At higher frequencies the impedance may be much greater, but mains is designed to supply at 50/60Hz (we'll leave out 3 phase from this discussion here, but it's still the same frequency). With switch mode power supplies (or UPSs) with decent design and modern PFC, they will draw close to a sine wave from the mains so higher frequency impedance reacting with switching resistance should not be a factor. All output stages normally have large capacitor buffers so that higher frequency demands on the PSU or UPS are catered for...

 

[wwenze]

I find it hard to believe that any small (<20kVA) UPS could provide a lower output impedance than a country/state wide public electricity supply. Even local transformers and house wiring impedance should be well below 0.1 ohms. Even my supply -- 30km from the substation in rural Spain on a local village transformer a km away and with 1980's power circuits and all of 25A/5.75 kW supply -- the impedance/resistance summed is below 0.11 ohms at 25 A draw - at 50 Hz of course, and I know that this is caused by the thin feeds from the meter to my distribution panel, the feeds into the meter are 100A rated. This result is by calculation and measurement (I'm planning on upping the power for an EV). At higher frequencies the impedance may be much greater, but mains is designed to supply at 50/60Hz (we'll leave out 3 phase from this discussion here, but it's still the same frequency). With switch mode power supplies (or UPSs) with decent design and modern PFC, they will draw close to a sine wave from the mains so higher frequency impedance reacting with switching resistance should not be a factor. All output stages normally have large capacitor buffers so that higher frequency demands on the PSU or UPS are catered for...

A single low-ESR electrolytic capacitor has ESR in the order of 2-digit milliohms

 

[Speedskater]

The only time an amplifier might draw anywhere close to ten times the rated circuit current is,
the first few power line cycles during a cold start.

 

[babadono]

? Thank goodness all my audio equipment takes input AC. power converts it to DC and then uses that DC to process and amplify the music signals.

 

[solderdude]

With switch mode power supplies (or UPSs) with decent design and modern PFC

No, they don't. They all (including linear power supplies) will only draw (short duration and high) peak currents near the top of the sine. This is what causes the flattening of the top of the sine.
All AC to DC converters work this way.

Only things like simple heaters and incandescent bulbs draw a sine-like current.