Poll for Topping PA5 owners only please.

[DMill]

There is no way to test for reliability without literally stressing enough samples of the said piece of equipment until it breaks to have any kind of objective results. In this case it seems the ASR community has done more than enough through the many posts to alert prospective buyers. Just google Topping PA5 issues and see what comes up at the top of the list.

 

[MAB]

Hi every one, in the future, I will provide technical support and after-sales assistance for TOPPING products at ASR.

We are very aware of your anxiety and understand the inconvenience of users who experience product failures. I think we need to make the following clarification: From our statistics and complaints received, the PA5 failure rate is slightly higher than our PA3s, LA90, MX5. But since the failure rate is still within the normal range, and even if the product fails, it won't cause more harm, so we didn't stop selling. But we knew it would affect the user experience, so we took action and researched.

From the analysis of our recurring situation and the faulty products returned by users, the reason is that very few internal components will fail under long-term heating, and the faulty unit can be repaired after replacing the components. Our solution to this is to adjust the manufacturing process of the components for improvement.

Based on the fact that the vast majority of users who experience failures experience problems after a long period of use (1-3 months), we think it will take some time for us to see improvements. At the same time, we have decided to increase the warranty period of the current power amplifier products (including PA3s, PA5, MX5, LA90) to two years. Details are still being discussed and will be announced soon.

As a responsible manufacturer, TOPPING will not sell products to the market knowing that there is a problem with them. TOPPING will also respond to user needs in a timely manner and solve problems for users.

Since you are providing support for Topping products, let me ask about another return I am in the middle of.
I bought an A30 Pro from Aoshida USA though their Amazon web store.
It has a faulty left channel. Every once in a while the left channel goes to half-volume. I have isolated it to the A30, without a doubt. Multiple cables, multiple sources, and three different headphones all show the same issue. Also, in the process of swapping cables etc., I noticed that if I tap the top of the A30 case, the signal reverts to full volume. So, clearly the A30 has gone bad, with an intermittent problem. Possibly a bad solder joint by the symptoms but it doesn't matter, it's broken and doesn't play music. It took me about 12 emails over the past two weeks with Aoshida to get to this point. They wanted to work with me on this with multiple rounds of email, asking for videos of the unit malfunctioning (How do you reasonably take a video demonstrating the unit has an intermittent channel? A trace on an oscilloscope while it is malfunctioning would work, but to be honest I am not interested in doing this diagnostic work and I am pretty sure Aoshida would have no idea, I hope you appreciate!) The entire time, the burden of proof is on me to demonstrate that the Topping product Aoshida sold me is defective.

So, after all this, Aoshida give me these instructions (exact text):

Sorry for the delay reply, today TOPPING factory reply us that they are not sure the reason, need to test it. TOPPING product support one year warranty.
You could send it to our China address, and we will repair it for you, do not need repair fee. But you need to pay for the shipping cost from US to China. Of course, we will pay the shipping cost from China to US. Of course, you can buy insurance for it.

Logistics requirements:
1. It must only pass USPS postal logistics, not UPS, DHL etc.
2. The declared value of the package must be declared US$20.
3. If the declaration is not strictly in accordance with 20 US dollars, the package may incur customs duties, which should be borne by the customer.
4. Before sending the package, please send us the pictures of all product accessories.
5. After sending, please tell us the tracking number.
6. After repair, we will declare this package at USD$10 and ship to you, maybe you will not need pay the duty.
Our address is :
Recipient: Weilin Wang
Address:Room 101, Building 6 Hongfengchuangyiyuan, Jiangxia Cun, Huangshi Street, Baiyun District, Guangzhou City, Guangdong Province, China
Zip code: 510420
Contact number: +86 13660337403
7. Please tell us your full name , address, and telephone number. After fix it up, we will ship it back to you.
Reply awaited,
(Aoshida hifi)

Again, your team seems to think that after paying money for broken product, that the customer needs to pay more money. And that it is OK for the customer to not be able to sue the product they paid money for for a long time.
Also, your team seems to think the burden of proof lies on the customer to show that they got a bad device. NO! The burden is on your team to sell working devices!
Also, seems that there is a systematic practice of trying to avoid taxes, I think this is illegal although I am not a import/export tax expert. Many of us are getting asked to do this, very unprofessional and seems very illegitimate way of doing business.

This is the same as Shenzhenaudio did for my PA5. That turned out poorly. While Shenzhenaudio did eventually refund my money, it was after the long negotiation over 5 months.
I am not going to play this game again.

In summary: I need help getting a full refund on my defective A30 Pro from Aoshida. No more proof, my sales receipt and my returned product is proof. And, return shipping needs to be paid for by Aoshida, and I am not going to participate in a tax evasion scheme.

 

[REK2575]

I certainly agree that reviews can't really be predictive -- but they can certainly be corrected when the evidence suggests the original conclusions are no longer valid.

I mean, honestly, just read how Amir's absolutely glowing, gushing, bowled-over-by-Topping's-awesomeness review reads in light of all the reports of the PA-5's serious problems:


Conclusions
It is abundantly clear that ton of great engineering has gone into the design of Topping PA5. It breaks all barriers as far as noise and distortion, not only in its own budget/desktop class, but way, way outside of that. If it had double the power, it would obsolete all of them and in a hurry! As it is, I would certainly use it in a desktop or secondary system. And even primary if you are not going to blast the volume with super inefficient speakers.

It is my absolute pleasure to recommend the Topping PA5. The dynamics of stereo amplifier market just changed folks!


If I were Amir, I'd be embarrassed to keep this up on the site. At the very least, make an addendum to the review, updated for where things now stand. Partly tongue in cheek, but I even wrote one for him some posts ago! It was pretty innocuous -- not a major refutation of the review, just an acknowledgment that 'readers should be aware that there are reports of the PA-5's reliability being a concern.'

I admit, I was suckered -- I bought a PA-5 some months ago on the strength of Amir's ecstatic "the dynamics of the stereo amplifier market just changed!" review. Then I started digging a little more into the threads on ASR. Full disclosure, my PA-5 did not have problems. But I did send it back within the 30-day window, because the possibility of getting stuck with a $350 brick seemed real and not all that enticing.

If Amir still absolutely without reservation still recommends the PA-5, I'd like to hear the rationale.

 

[REK2575]

So, after all this, Aoshida give me these instructions (exact text):

Sorry for the delay reply, today TOPPING factory reply us that they are not sure the reason, need to test it. TOPPING product support one year warranty.
You could send it to our China address, and we will repair it for you, do not need repair fee. But you need to pay for the shipping cost from US to China. Of course, we will pay the shipping cost from China to US. Of course, you can buy insurance for it.

Logistics requirements:
1. It must only pass USPS postal logistics, not UPS, DHL etc.
2. The declared value of the package must be declared US$20.
3. If the declaration is not strictly in accordance with 20 US dollars, the package may incur customs duties, which should be borne by the customer.
4. Before sending the package, please send us the pictures of all product accessories.
5. After sending, please tell us the tracking number.
6. After repair, we will declare this package at USD$10 and ship to you, maybe you will not need pay the duty.
Our address is :
Recipient: Weilin Wang
Address:Room 101, Building 6 Hongfengchuangyiyuan, Jiangxia Cun, Huangshi Street, Baiyun District, Guangzhou City, Guangdong Province, China
Zip code: 510420
Contact number: +86 13660337403
7. Please tell us your full name , address, and telephone number. After fix it up, we will ship it back to you.
Reply awaited,
(Aoshida hifi)

This is crazy. How can you 'buy insurance for it' if you're being told to declare the value at $20...? I must be missing something, beyond the obvious attempt to skirt customs duties...

What I've come to conclude about Topping, SMSL, Sabaj, Loxjie, etc etc is this: buy from Amazon, you have 30 days. If your unit's going to fail, you have to hope it does so within that 30-day window. After that, you can drive yourself crazy trying to get them to fulfill the warranty, but with all the hoops you have to jump through and the uncertainty and delays, it just does not seem worth it to me. And Aoshida HiFi is usually held up here as the gold standard of distributors... That 7-step list of contortions doesn't seem so gold standard to me...

My two cents: the obvious conclusion, and what I'm doing going forward is: Don't purchase these products. Their low cost is deceptive. Their reliability is often highly questionable. It's better to buy something more expensive but which is much more reliable with much better warranties and customer service.

 

[iamsms]

Since you are providing support for Topping products, let me ask about another return I am in the middle of.
I bought an A30 Pro from Aoshida USA though their Amazon web store.
It has a faulty left channel. Every once in a while the left channel goes to half-volume. I have isolated it to the A30, without a doubt. Multiple cables, multiple sources, and three different headphones all show the same issue. Also, in the process of swapping cables etc., I noticed that if I tap the top of the A30 case, the signal reverts to full volume. So, clearly the A30 has gone bad, with an intermittent problem. Possibly a bad solder joint by the symptoms but it doesn't matter, it's broken and doesn't play music. It took me about 12 emails over the past two weeks with Aoshida to get to this point. They wanted to work with me on this with multiple rounds of email, asking for videos of the unit malfunctioning (How do you reasonably take a video demonstrating the unit has an intermittent channel? A trace on an oscilloscope while it is malfunctioning would work, but to be honest I am not interested in doing this diagnostic work and I am pretty sure Aoshida would have no idea, I hope you appreciate!) The entire time, the burden of proof is on me to demonstrate that the Topping product Aoshida sold me is defective.

So, after all this, Aoshida give me these instructions (exact text):

Sorry for the delay reply, today TOPPING factory reply us that they are not sure the reason, need to test it. TOPPING product support one year warranty.
You could send it to our China address, and we will repair it for you, do not need repair fee. But you need to pay for the shipping cost from US to China. Of course, we will pay the shipping cost from China to US. Of course, you can buy insurance for it.

Logistics requirements:
1. It must only pass USPS postal logistics, not UPS, DHL etc.
2. The declared value of the package must be declared US$20.
3. If the declaration is not strictly in accordance with 20 US dollars, the package may incur customs duties, which should be borne by the customer.
4. Before sending the package, please send us the pictures of all product accessories.
5. After sending, please tell us the tracking number.
6. After repair, we will declare this package at USD$10 and ship to you, maybe you will not need pay the duty.
Our address is :
Recipient: Weilin Wang
Address:Room 101, Building 6 Hongfengchuangyiyuan, Jiangxia Cun, Huangshi Street, Baiyun District, Guangzhou City, Guangdong Province, China
Zip code: 510420
Contact number: +86 13660337403
7. Please tell us your full name , address, and telephone number. After fix it up, we will ship it back to you.
Reply awaited,
(Aoshida hifi)

Again, your team seems to think that after paying money for broken product, that the customer needs to pay more money. And that it is OK for the customer to not be able to sue the product they paid money for for a long time.
Also, your team seems to think the burden of proof lies on the customer to show that they got a bad device. NO! The burden is on your team to sell working devices!
Also, seems that there is a systematic practice of trying to avoid taxes, I think this is illegal although I am not a import/export tax expert. Many of us are getting asked to do this, very unprofessional and seems very illegitimate way of doing business.

This is the same as Shenzhenaudio did for my PA5. That turned out poorly. While Shenzhenaudio did eventually refund my money, it was after the long negotiation over 5 months.
I am not going to play this game again.

In summary: I need help getting a full refund on my defective A30 Pro from Aoshida. No more proof, my sales receipt and my returned product is proof. And, return shipping needs to be paid for by Aoshida, and I am not going to participate in a tax evasion scheme.

I am having a similar experience with an iBasso product and Shenzhen audio right now. To say that I am very disappointed is an understatement. In my case, it was a bent usb connector and I was baffled when they asked me for a video (even after showing multiple pics). Maybe I am being cynical here, but to me a lot of it feels like a way to frustrate the customer into giving up. Fortunately for me, it is a cheap item.

Truly sorry to see the bullshit you are going through (having to lie so that they can avoid customs fee?!!).

 

[terrys999]

This is crazy. How can you 'buy insurance for it' if you're being told to declare the value at $20...? I must be missing something, beyond the obvious attempt to skirt customs duties...

What I've come to conclude about Topping, SMSL, Sabaj, Loxjie, etc etc is this: buy from Amazon, you have 30 days. If your unit's going to fail, you have to hope it does so within that 30-day window. After that, you can drive yourself crazy trying to get them to fulfill the warranty, but with all the hoops you have to jump through and the uncertainty and delays, it just does not seem worth it to me. And Aoshida HiFi is usually held up here as the gold standard of distributors... That 7-step list of contortions doesn't seem so gold standard to me...

My two cents: the obvious conclusion, and what I'm doing going forward is: Don't purchase these products. Their low cost is deceptive. Their reliability is often highly questionable. It's better to buy something more expensive but which is much more reliable with much better warranties and

I got emails mentioning £30. Some guff
Blackmail. You name it I got it.
I passed all to amazon and fraud department. Waiting for their responses.

Just noticed that a topping post said. Cooling won’t help has it’s a component overheating
I don’t see em fixing it maybe new amps in future, and if they repaired our faulty amps it would be a Frankenstein job.
Blobs of solder quick component replacement. Which would probably screw up other components in its path.
Nope the pa5 is dead.
There’s no coming back from this.

Could be using fake Chinese capacitors?
If topping would tell us which part is dodgy then perhaps one brave soul could open one up and fix it.

 

[MAB]

I am having a similar experience with an iBasso product and Shenzhen audio right now. To say that I am very disappointed is an understatement. In my case, it was a bent usb connector and I was baffled when they asked me for a video (even after showing multiple pics). Maybe I am being cynical here, but to me a lot of it feels like a way to frustrate the customer into giving up. Fortunately for me, it is a cheap item.

Truly sorry to see the bullshit you are going through (having to lie so that they can avoid customs fee?!!).

Yes, Shenzhenaudio absolutely wore me down to the ground on my PA5 return. It was so disheartening. I even wonder if it was worth it to work so hard to get my money back. I felt so bad for screaming over email at the end of the ordeal, but that seemed to be the only thing that worked.
Now, seems to be repeating all over again on the A30 Pro with Aoshida USA. I definitely wont let it go infinite loop like the PA5, and I bought it though Aoshida's Amazon storefront so we'll see if there is more leverage to get what I paid for.

Hi every one, in the future, I will provide technical support and after-sales assistance for TOPPING products at ASR.

We are very aware of your anxiety and understand the inconvenience of users who experience product failures. I think we need to make the following clarification: From our statistics and complaints received, the PA5 failure rate is slightly higher than our PA3s, LA90, MX5. But since the failure rate is still within the normal range, and even if the product fails, it won't cause more harm, so we didn't stop selling. But we knew it would affect the user experience, so we took action and researched.

From the analysis of our recurring situation and the faulty products returned by users, the reason is that very few internal components will fail under long-term heating, and the faulty unit can be repaired after replacing the components. Our solution to this is to adjust the manufacturing process of the components for improvement.

Based on the fact that the vast majority of users who experience failures experience problems after a long period of use (1-3 months), we think it will take some time for us to see improvements. At the same time, we have decided to increase the warranty period of the current power amplifier products (including PA3s, PA5, MX5, LA90) to two years. Details are still being discussed and will be announced soon.

As a responsible manufacturer, TOPPING will not sell products to the market knowing that there is a problem with them. TOPPING will also respond to user needs in a timely manner and solve problems for users.

Please tell me what you are going to do to assist with my A30 Pro return.

 

[MAB]

This is crazy. How can you 'buy insurance for it' if you're being told to declare the value at $20...? I must be missing something, beyond the obvious attempt to skirt customs duties...

What I've come to conclude about Topping, SMSL, Sabaj, Loxjie, etc etc is this: buy from Amazon, you have 30 days. If your unit's going to fail, you have to hope it does so within that 30-day window. After that, you can drive yourself crazy trying to get them to fulfill the warranty, but with all the hoops you have to jump through and the uncertainty and delays, it just does not seem worth it to me. And Aoshida HiFi is usually held up here as the gold standard of distributors... That 7-step list of contortions doesn't seem so gold standard to me...

My two cents: the obvious conclusion, and what I'm doing going forward is: Don't purchase these products. Their low cost is deceptive. Their reliability is often highly questionable. It's better to buy something more expensive but which is much more reliable with much better warranties and customer service.

Yes, the whole thing stinks. Hard to swallow. Similar treatment I got from Shenzhen on my PA5 return, except I let the PA5 ordeal drag out over 5 or 6 months.

Hi every one, in the future, I will provide technical support and after-sales assistance for TOPPING products at ASR.

We are very aware of your anxiety and understand the inconvenience of users who experience product failures. I think we need to make the following clarification: From our statistics and complaints received, the PA5 failure rate is slightly higher than our PA3s, LA90, MX5. But since the failure rate is still within the normal range, and even if the product fails, it won't cause more harm, so we didn't stop selling. But we knew it would affect the user experience, so we took action and researched.

From the analysis of our recurring situation and the faulty products returned by users, the reason is that very few internal components will fail under long-term heating, and the faulty unit can be repaired after replacing the components. Our solution to this is to adjust the manufacturing process of the components for improvement.

Based on the fact that the vast majority of users who experience failures experience problems after a long period of use (1-3 months), we think it will take some time for us to see improvements. At the same time, we have decided to increase the warranty period of the current power amplifier products (including PA3s, PA5, MX5, LA90) to two years. Details are still being discussed and will be announced soon.

As a responsible manufacturer, TOPPING will not sell products to the market knowing that there is a problem with them. TOPPING will also respond to user needs in a timely manner and solve problems for users.

Topping-Service, please indicate how you plan to help me. At this time, I asked for a full refund from Aoshida for the A30 Pro. I hope you appreciate, Aoshida has already dropped the ball and I just don't want to mess around any more.

 

[REK2575]

Nope the pa5 is dead.

I truly think this is the business model for these Chinese hifi companies: keep cranking out new models and flood the market with relatively inexpensive equipment. Above all, make sure they 'measure well' with 'state of the art SINAD' -- ASR is sure to praise it to high heaven if it does. Do not worry about longevity/durability/reliability. If/when problems crop up with a model, guess what? There's already a new improved better model! Don't worry about that old stuff. Look at the shiny new stuff! And buy the shiny new stuff!

Topping released the LA90 not too long after the PA-5. What's that you say? People are reporting problems with the PA-5? We're all about the LA90 now! We've moved on, you should too!

Why else does Topping or SMSL etc. need to have so many models of DACs and amps on the market? Seriously go to Amazon and look up SMSL DACs. There are a dozen different models. You can hardly tell the difference between some of them. If there's always a new model coming 3 months down the road, what incentive do these companies have to build reliable equipment?

 

[raest]

Please show me one review of PA5 which predicted reliability issues. It is extremely hard to say if something will more likely be broken, unless the design is obviously flawed. I am not defending anyone, but it is obvious that the designers are talented. They could make products that measured great, no denying that, so if there were any design flaws, they are not obvious to even trained eyes. Saying that they exploited ASR testing methodology is quite unfair to Amir

how is it unfair? it's exactly what Topping are doing. Amir tests amps for certain parameters in certain ways and has done so for quite a while. those are always the "headline features" in his reviews, with the odd comment about other stuff which is ignored by 99% of readers who like pretty graphs and clear numbers (me too, but i've learned my lesson).

few outside the ASR crowd (rightfully) truly cares this much about SINAD, because few understand how pointless it is beyond a certain number (other than as a metric of a subset of the engineering quality) but word spreads around that it "measures great" and then presumably boatloads of yt subjectivist reviewers of affordable hifi gear present it as the next slice of audiophile heaven.

people at Topping know all of this. Topping know exactly what they are doing and how to get the most exposure and brand recognition (and thus units sold) with minimal $$$ spent on marketing. in their place, i'd exploit this as well. yeah, Topping isn't the problem, we are. we deserve to get ripped off for blindly following the chart as some kind of buying guide, when in reality it should just be used as a guidance to see if something is well and truly overpriced garbage. something, iirc, Amir himself said a long time ago (correct me if i'm wrong)

talented designers? i disagree. i think the talent is at the marketing and product management. the design and engineering is, evidently, subpar, because "chasing the SINAD" (particularly the numbers we're talking here) with soooo many compromises (be it PA5 or others) when it comes to reliability and functionality is the exact opposite of great engineering. particularly when you have so little faith in your product that you offer the minimal warranty possible. you will never convince me that an engineer who didn't spend more than 5mins thinking about amp thermals in such a compact form factor is "talented"

the AHB2 is obviously done by talented engineers. as are the Purify/Ncore modules. no compromises there (and you pay for it)

 

[Doodski]

it's exactly what Topping are doing.

Do you have proof of that?

people at Topping know all of this. Topping know exactly what they are doing

again... Do you have proof?

you will never convince me that an engineer who didn't spend more than 5mins thinking about amp thermals

again... Do you have proof?

I'm not protecting Topping in fact I bought a JDS Labs DAC yesterday and will buy Schiit headphone amp in the next days due to the service Topping has not provided to problematic models.

 

[MAB]

Please show me one review of PA5 which predicted reliability issues. It is extremely hard to say if something will more likely be broken, unless the design is obviously flawed. I am not defending anyone, but it is obvious that the designers are talented. They could make products that measured great, no denying that, so if there were any design flaws, they are not obvious to even trained eyes. Saying that they exploited ASR testing methodology is quite unfair to Amir

how is it unfair? it's exactly what Topping are doing. Amir tests amps for certain parameters in certain ways and has done so for quite a while. those are always the "headline features" in his reviews, with the odd comment about other stuff which is ignored by 99% of readers who like pretty graphs and clear numbers (me too, but i've learned my lesson).

few outside the ASR crowd (rightfully) truly cares this much about SINAD, because few understand how pointless it is beyond a certain number (other than as a metric of a subset of the engineering quality) but word spreads around that it "measures great" and then presumably boatloads of yt subjectivist reviewers of affordable hifi gear present it as the next slice of audiophile heaven.

people at Topping know all of this. Topping know exactly what they are doing and how to get the most exposure and brand recognition (and thus units sold) with minimal $$$ spent on marketing. in their place, i'd exploit this as well. yeah, Topping isn't the problem, we are. we deserve to get ripped off for blindly following the chart as some kind of buying guide, when in reality it should just be used as a guidance to see if something is well and truly overpriced garbage. something, iirc, Amir himself said a long time ago (correct me if i'm wrong)

talented designers? i disagree. i think the talent is at the marketing and product management. the design and engineering is, evidently, subpar, because "chasing the SINAD" (particularly the numbers we're talking here) with soooo many compromises (be it PA5 or others) when it comes to reliability and functionality is the exact opposite of great engineering. particularly when you have so little faith in your product that you offer the minimal warranty possible. you will never convince me that an engineer who didn't spend more than 5mins thinking about amp thermals in such a compact form factor is "talented"

delta76 and raest, I think you both make good points. I don't think performance (SINAD or otherwise) is mutually exclusive from quality and reliability. And, I think making high performance is a good thing! It's a great criteria to start, yes it becomes diminishingly important after a certain point, but it indicates some level of acumen and execution.
And, while there are many aspects to reliability and quality, that isn't even the basic problem.
The real problem is that at this time, Topping is making high performance devices, but doesn't seem to have made a product that can actually be sold to consumers with the current network and business practices of the resellers. It's not that they are making tons of crap, it's that they have no idea what to do when something goes wrong at the customer level. This is a reputational thing that will take Topping time to get on top of. Of course, they can start right now.

 

[MAB]

how is it unfair? it's exactly what Topping are doing. Amir tests amps for certain parameters in certain ways and has done so for quite a while. those are always the "headline features" in his reviews

Do you have proof of that?

Thanks Doodski!

raest, not to be provocative, but I actually want Topping and their competition to design for performance. I actually think it is a worthy goal and is an excellent starting point for all other things, and is not exclusive of any reasonable quality goal. And, yes there are some examples where circuit robustness is at odds with that last few dB of performance... OK, maybe they did make a key design decision that traded Rel for SINAD, or just ran out of time doing that suite of thermal torture tests because they were so busy looking at FFT traces. But to me the biggest fail isn't circuit or component, it's that they just didn't think through "What if we have a product with xx% return rate, and a forum like ASR where technical discussion will occur?" So, I am pretty happy with ASR. And pretty happy with this thread. And actually would love to keep the heat (your heat too) on Topping, because I would actually just love to know what is going on here. And, would even more love for them to publicly and demonstratively fix their customer service. And do the reflection that you are asking for.

I would love to see Topping come out of this correct. They just released an 8-channel DAC - DM7. It would be awesome for an active speaker speaker system I have been tinkering with for years. The DM7 DAC looks great. But, the owner's manual is mostly about SINAD, and the information Topping website leads most people on that thread to believe they are going to replace their AVR with a DM7, even though that is about the least likely things one could do with this device!!! Some ASR members are desperately trying to educate the masses on what the DM7 is and isn't actually useful for but to no avail because Topping isn't quite making a product yet! Especially not an enthusiast product.

 

[raest]

Do you have proof of that?

*insert Homer Simpson duh gif here*

dude... we're in the thread that's implicitly about it, lol

again... Do you have proof?

*insert another Homer Simpson duh gif here*

dude... can you put 2 and 2 together? if i can make these simple conclusions in a domain not within my core skillset while watching the market and this forum for the past couple of months, i'm sure the people at Topping who live off of this for the past years have

again... Do you have proof?

*insert yet another Homer simpson duh gif here*

do i really have to explain as if you're 5 years old? the facts are here: this is a very poor thermal design. the scenarios are the following:
1) the designer(s) put no thought into it.
2) the designer(s) put minimal thought into it.
3) the designer(s) don't know how to do it.
4) the designer(s) don't know how to do it within the parameters (and this is a management fault).
pick one

if you can think of more scenarios, feel free to add them. the point is it always boils down to either malice or incompetence. i choose to believe the latter, hence my hyperbole. should i link to the dictionary definition of "hyperbole" so you stop with these silly "do you have proof"?

I would love to see Topping come out of this correct. They just released an 8-channel DAC - DM7. It would be awesome for an active speaker speaker system I have been tinkering with for years. The DM7 DAC looks great. But, the owner's manual is mostly about SINAD, and the information Topping website leads most people on that thread to believe they are going to replace their AVR with a DM7, even though that is about the least likely things one could do with this device!!! Some ASR members are desperately trying to educate the masses on what the DM7 is and isn't actually useful for but to no avail because Topping isn't quite making a product yet! Especially not an enthusiast product.

we definitely disagree on what "performance" is when it comes to amps, because SINAD past a certain point most certainly it is not. you're realistically not going to hear the difference between 80 and 120 in 99,99% real life scenarios, but you're definitely going to hear clipping... not to mention your unit crackling and failing due to poor design

it's like pretending that dragsters are the best cars ever because they have the highest acceleration. that's just one parameter (well, actually two for SINAD ) performance.

and that DM7 story you presented in your quote is exactly the thing i'm talking about (that and the constant releases of the same products with slightly better measurements every few months... something every budget chinese manufacturer is doing. and nobody else... i wonder why? it's time people started asking the important questions). Topping aren't fools. they're gaming the ASR system (again, i don't fault them for that. it's their livelihood. in their place, i'd do the same if not worse)

 

[Doodski]

the facts are here: this is a very poor thermal design. the scenarios are the following:
1) the designer(s) put no thought into it.
2) the designer(s) put minimal thought into it.
3) the designer(s) don't know how to do it.
4) the designer(s) don't know how to do it within the parameters (and this is a management fault).
pick one

if you can think of more scenarios, feel free to add them. the point is it always boils down to either malice or incompetence. i choose to believe the latter

Over a bunch of years I estimate that I've serviced about 55K units of electronic repair and many many of those where due to heat. Near everything I've seen was broken in that aspect. So I'm on board with that. It's not malice. It's just design or lack of qualifying the design and components.

 

[MAB]

we definitely disagree on what "performance" is when it comes to amps, because SINAD past a certain point most certainly it is not. you're realistically not going to hear the difference between 80 and 120 in 99,99% real life scenarios, but you're definitely going to hear clipping... not to mention your unit crackling and failing due to poor design

it's like pretending that dragsters are the best cars ever because they have the highest acceleration. that's just one parameter (well, actually two for SINAD ) performance.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. Yes totally agreed, beyond a point SINAD improvements are just not audible. I tried to avoid even using the term SINAD, but I totally get your point. And, the car analogy!

and that DM7 story you presented in your quote is exactly the thing i'm talking about (that and the constant releases of the same products with slightly better measurements every few months... something every budget chinese manufacturer is doing. and nobody else... i wonder why? it's time people started asking the important questions). Topping aren't fools. they're gaming the ASR system (again, i don't fault them for that. it's their livelihood. in their place, i'd do the same if not worse)

Double-agree. With one exception, DM7 is actually a slightly new thing and actually seems incredibly useful for a select few applications. But is cast into the marketplace without a ton of thought (outside of perhaps SINAD!) So it kinda falls into the category you just mentioned, a big scrum of DACs.

 

[Laserjock]

Rush to market might be a qualifying issue.

 

[Doodski]

Rush to market might be a qualifying issue.

I think it is. The product should have been qualified in a calibrated oven at temps that would stress the components, age them rapidly and reveal any design issues. Torture test the product.

 

[Holmz]

Mine hissed so bad on RCAs I had to send back for a refund.
I am not sure if that makes me an owner or not… I certainly tried.
That god I used AMAZON for that one.

 

[Laserjock]

This thread should be merged with the main review?
I searched for Topping PA5 and it showed the main thread for review and if you didn’t look much further, (the crux of a lot of young searchers nowadays) you would think it didn’t have any issues.