Poll for Topping PA5 owners only please.

[tiramisu]

The joys of chip supply shortage. They either under-specced something missed something in the design or received poorly QA'ed parts. Impossible to tell from the statement.
No recall, so probably best to wait till everyone else buys the lemons before ordering a PA5. Chinese manufacturing and selling is a mystery to me but Serial Numbers are going to be important and the resale value, if you like flipping boxes, will be trash. No one is going to want one of these without a warranty and a return policy.

 

[airbornimal]

Who's going to be in charge of the new warranty? Part of the problem is that resellers are extremely poor at supporting customers.

 

[Slayer]

Hi every one, in the future, I will provide technical support and after-sales assistance for TOPPING products at ASR.

Well, I hope this statement is true. If you've read through this thread, some members are at their witts end with Topping's support.

From the analysis of our recurring situation and the faulty products returned by users, the reason is that very few internal components will fail under long-term heating, and the faulty unit can be repaired after replacing the components. Our solution to this is to adjust the manufacturing process of the components for improvement.

Sorry, this sounds like a bunch of fluff and not very reassuring from a consumer's standpoint.

Based on the fact that the vast majority of users who experience failures experience problems after a long period of use (1-3 months)

1-3 months is long? This is a little concerning when one wants to think about any of Toppings product reliability.

At the same time, we have decided to increase the warranty period of the current power amplifier products (including PA3s, PA5, MX5, LA90) to two years.

Again, what good is a two-year warranty when you have to jump through hoops to get the product there and back again.

As a responsible manufacturer, TOPPING will not sell products to the market knowing that there is a problem with them. TOPPING will also respond to user needs in a timely manner and solve problems for users.

Responsible? A responsible company doesn't make you declare a fraudulent dollar amount on such product just to get it shipped backed in for warranty. We could go on with these tactics, but i leave it for now.
A timely manner is not waiting for 3 months to respond here, when we all know you have a presence and easy access at any time to respond.
So, sorry, but personally i'm not too impressed with your response or how Topping has handled this whole situation.

 

[RandomEar]

Aside from practice,what is the manual states?

Edit:found it myself in audiophonics:


View attachment 218079

You shouldn't put 4V then.
(even if that's not the right way to state on spec's,it should clearly define the range)

That's not a problem. Input sensitivity only means that the amp will reach full volume at 2.6 V. Everything past that, will be clipped - that may not be the best for your speakers or your listening pleasure, but should not damage the amp.

Apart from that point, setting your DAC "to 4 V output" only means it can reach 4 V if a 0 dB full scale sample is decoded - that is the absolute maximum possible signal. At that point (and seeing that input sensitivity is 2.6 V, already a bit below 0 dB), you will be listening at literally full blast on the amp close to or past the clipping point. That is not a normal listening scenario and certainly not an everyday occurence. Hence, it is totally OK to set your DAC to deliver 4 V max into an amp that has less than 4 V input sensitivity. In everyday use, the actual voltage will likely be in the couple hundred millivolt range.

 

[Georgrig]

Hi every one, in the future, I will provide technical support and after-sales assistance for TOPPING products at ASR.

We are very aware of your anxiety and understand the inconvenience of users who experience product failures. I think we need to make the following clarification: From our statistics and complaints received, the PA5 failure rate is slightly higher than our PA3s, LA90, MX5. But since the failure rate is still within the normal range, and even if the product fails, it won't cause more harm, so we didn't stop selling. But we knew it would affect the user experience, so we took action and researched.

From the analysis of our recurring situation and the faulty products returned by users, the reason is that very few internal components will fail under long-term heating, and the faulty unit can be repaired after replacing the components. Our solution to this is to adjust the manufacturing process of the components for improvement.

Based on the fact that the vast majority of users who experience failures experience problems after a long period of use (1-3 months), we think it will take some time for us to see improvements. At the same time, we have decided to increase the warranty period of the current power amplifier products (including PA3s, PA5, MX5, LA90) to two years. Details are still being discussed and will be announced soon.

As a responsible manufacturer, TOPPING will not sell products to the market knowing that there is a problem with them. TOPPING will also respond to user needs in a timely manner and solve problems for users.

LOL

 

[TOPPING-Service]

Given that these failures are based on heat, is there any advice to help people with existing systems?

I assume we should untack the unit (mine has an E50 underneath it) and ensure it's in an open space with decent airflow?

Has anyone added a fan to their PA5 or a heatsink?

Not something that can be solved by a fan, it is a localized internal overheating that can be improved by adjusting the manufacturing process of the components. As a whole there is no problem with PA5 heat dissipation.

 

[TOPPING-Service]

There seem to be several categories of fail. One is the sound of rustling leaves (or running water), seems that it comes from the left channel for most people.
Are you familiar with this symptom?
If so, is it heat-related?
My unit developed this after 1 week. The unit ran cool the entire week it was working, so heat doesn't seem to be the cause, and 1 week is not long.
Also, my unit started making a loud turn-on noise with a large DC offset that bottomed out the woofer. So, not sure about the no harm statement. I see in this thread that some people were using their PA5 as a tweeter amp, large DC offset to a tweeter is potentially harmful.

It did take too long for you to engage.
I have already had my 50 emails with Shenzhenaudio, and got my money back after extended negotiations. Seems they didn't know how to support your product warranty.

I'm sorry to bring you an unpleasant experience. PA5 complaints focus on two issues: noticeable continuous noise and no output.

 

[TOPPING-Service]

Who's going to be in charge of the new warranty? Part of the problem is that resellers are extremely poor at supporting customers.

Local dealers in some countries have always offered a two-year warranty in accordance with local regulations, and for this case the policy will continue.

For areas with an original warranty of one year, we have two options.
a, Dealers are in charge of both years.
b, The dealers are still in charge of the first year and TOPPING is in charge of the second year.
This will need to be determined in consultation with the dealers and may not be the final answer.

Besides, we will also discuss with the dealers how to provide a better service experience for our user.

 

[JeremyFife]

I'm sorry to bring you an unpleasant experience. PA5 complaints focus on two issues: noticeable continuous noise and no output.

At a very basic level, that seems correct.

Question: what is your approach for faulty units that are returned to you: repair or replace?

If repair, what changes are you making to ensure that the repaired unit does not fail again?

If replace, same question really - how will we be assured that the new unit does not have the same design/manufacturing problem?

With thanks for your help

 

[Anthony T]

Based on the fact that the vast majority of users who experience failures experience problems after a long period of use (1-3 months),

1-3 months is not a long period of use for a amplifier. That’s a trial period lol.

 

[delta76]

1-3 months is not a long period of use for a amplifier. That’s a trial period lol.

and we were told amps basically last forever.

 

[Sokel]

and we were told amps basically last forever.

Probably someone took the audiophools term "break in period" without the "in"

 

[pma]

and we were told amps basically last forever.

Real amplifiers do, toys do not.

 

[DSJR]

As regards 2.6V input or 4V input. The VOLUME CONTROL on the amp should deal with any potential issues here UNLESS there's a line buffer circuit inside before the control itself which overloads over the 2.6V specified. Simply turning down the dac feeding it shouldn't have any effect on performance otherwise if the listening volume is the same? If the dac has a volume output on it, you then have two 'volume controls,' so a choice as to whether to leave the amp set to max and adjust on the dac, or setting the dac to max output and using the PA5 volume control. Hope this makes some sense.

I'd have put this little amp as a great desktop product for small systems. Are people trying to use it as a proper amp with larger speakers and actually clipping the thing, albeit not enough to be seriously audible?

 

[terrys999]

So topping are saying every pa5 is duff?
An internal component is or are overheating?

Then everyone should send theirs back for refund, period.
They are obviously not fit for purpose.

Topping have admitted it’s a design fault its not if they fail it’s when they Will fail.
Better still. Call all units back, and scrap pa5.

It’s a LEMON.
Just told my mate. Come pick up pa5 and get a refund ASP.

 

[raest]

i have to say, designing a BALANCED amp with lower than average gain (i'm betting engineering "trickery" to bump up the SINAD so that it can score high on amir's chart... like the LA90) that has problems with dealing with 4v input, when most (all?) DACs with a balanced output have it at 4v is... monumentally stupid, to be perfectly polite?

and then even paying no particular attention to thermals in such a small package (other than "just cut a few slits, i'm sure it will be fine")?!

this is proof to me that the engineer is a great marketer who is exploiting ASR's testing methodology, but a very poor engineer in practice (this is either incompetence or malice... i leave the choice to you)

and then 1-3 months for an amp "a long period of use"?! in what parallel universe?! we're not talking about yoghurts left outside the fridge, but consumer electronics!

Topping is dead to me. did not expect such a poor response. hopefully mine dies (again) within warranty and i can ask for a refund next time... this is pathetic

 

[airbornimal]

Besides, we will also discuss with the dealers how to provide a better service experience for our user

Thanks for the response - for me this is crucial. I hope this discussion will involve finding ways to let customers receive service without putting false information on custom forms.

 

[REK2575]

Aren't we all losing sight of what really matters? The measurements! https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-pa5-review-amplifier.28512/

Quoth Amir:

Conclusions
It is abundantly clear that ton of great engineering has gone into the design of Topping PA5. It breaks all barriers as far as noise and distortion, not only in its own budget/desktop class, but way, way outside of that. If it had double the power, it would obsolete all of them and in a hurry! As it is, I would certainly use it in a desktop or secondary system. And even primary if you are not going to blast the volume with super inefficient speakers.

It is my absolute pleasure to recommend the Topping PA5. The dynamics of stereo amplifier market just changed folks!


All these complaints about 'unit failure' and 'lack of reliability' sound like little more than nitpicking to me. Remember, "a TON of GREAT ENGINEERING has gone into the design of the Topping PA5!"

(^please read the above with your irony sensors activated...)

 

[MAB]

I'm sorry to bring you an unpleasant experience. PA5 complaints focus on two issues: noticeable continuous noise and no output.

So it appears my PA5 sample suffered from "noticeable continuous noise" symptom.

 

[delta76]

i have to say, designing a BALANCED amp with lower than average gain (i'm betting engineering "trickery" to bump up the SINAD so that it can score high on amir's chart... like the LA90) that has problems with dealing with 4v input, when most (all?) DACs with a balanced output have it at 4v is... monumentally stupid, to be perfectly polite?

and then even paying no particular attention to thermals in such a small package (other than "just cut a few slits, i'm sure it will be fine")?!

this is proof to me that the engineer is a great marketer who is exploiting ASR's testing methodology, but a very poor engineer in practice (this is either incompetence or malice... i leave the choice to you)

and then 1-3 months for an amp "a long period of use"?! in what parallel universe?! we're not talking about yoghurts left outside the fridge, but consumer electronics!

Topping is dead to me. did not expect such a poor response. hopefully mine dies (again) within warranty and i can ask for a refund next time... this is pathetic

Please show me one review of PA5 which predicted reliability issues. It is extremely hard to say if something will more likely be broken, unless the design is obviously flawed. I am not defending anyone, but it is obvious that the designers are talented. They could make products that measured great, no denying that, so if there were any design flaws, they are not obvious to even trained eyes. Saying that they exploited ASR testing methodology is quite unfair to Amir